Let's talk school shootings

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Caesar753, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. a2z

    a2z Phenom

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    Jan 26, 2018

    Fabulous question. Definitely something to look into. Could it be that seeing such horrendous violence around them all the time that the bullied may choose to not resort to that behavior? Could it be those that would be the most bullied join gangs and believe they have those that have their backs? Could it be that the types of bullying is different? Could it be the expectations of rural and suburban kids is set higher in their areas which means being lower is seen as a greater cost?
     
  2. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Jan 26, 2018

    But it's not that inner-city kids are committing mass shootings in places besides school. They're not committing mass shootings period, at least not with random targets or where the goal is to harm as many people as possible. There may be situations (likely involving gangs and/or drugs) where multiple people are shot, but that's arguably different from a mass shooting like what we're talking about here.
     
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  3. a2z

    a2z Phenom

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    Were the targets really random in the KY shooting or were so many kids bullies that they were all complicit in his mind (like killing a gang member just because he was in the gang that did something to one of your gang members). In this case the students and teachers were the focus of his torment or anger. It didn't necessarily have to be one.
     
  4. viola_x_wittrockiana

    viola_x_wittrockiana Companion

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    Jan 26, 2018

    There's several differences that might explain why these events tend not to happen in inner-city settings. One obvious one is that many inner-city schools have metal detectors and resource officers. Another possible one is that more inner-city students have family that have either been victims of shootings or are incarcerated, which means that they have a better grasp of the ramifications. In hunting areas, it's not a red flag to see a teen with a gun like it is elsewhere.

    The size of the student body is a possible factor as well. If your class is ultra small, everyone has to be reasonably civil to everyone or it just gets too awkward for everyone. If your class is large, it's more likely that you'll fall in with a group of like-minded people. Small, but not ultra small is where there's problems. It's big enough for groups to form, but not enough to support very many. If the groups are jocks and artsy kids and you're neither, it's tough.

    I don't know if it's an issue in Benton specifically, but I do know that drugs are a massive problem in the region and have been for decades. I also know that the type of bullying that goes on can be ruthless. I have a distant cousin who stood out too much because he was smart and people didn't like it. He was bullied as a child and framed for a crime as a teen. He wasn't a stoner or athlete or FFA-type, so he had no group protection. He stood out, so bullies ruined his life.
     
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  5. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Jan 26, 2018

    The Onion, as with so many things, basically summarizes my thought on this entire issue:

    https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819580358

    The reality is, we all know the steps that need to be taken to prevent gun violence. It's just that, as a society, we've decided dead children are an acceptable price to pay for access to the sort of weaponry that the founding fathers could not have possibly conceived of.
     
  6. a2z

    a2z Phenom

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    Jan 27, 2018

    My final thoughts...
    If we change gun laws and they hinder access to the point that mass shootings don't happen as often, will people be happy that the problem is solved because the symptom of a broken society isn't as apparent? Seems to me it is like making a test so easy and claiming everyone in the class has met standards while those that are failing get hidden.

    Making stricter gun laws may (but I do not believe it will) make for fewer mass shootings, but the underlying problem will still remain. People having an immense desire to kill a bunch of people. That doesn't make for a good society.

    If society is improved to see violence as a bad thing, people will give up guns more readily because they will not feel the need for them.
     
  7. anon55

    anon55 Comrade

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    Jan 27, 2018

    Very interesting point. I know there are incidents of bringing guns to school in low income/urban schools, or perhaps shooting an enemy, but not mass shootings. I've never heard of one.
     
  8. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 27, 2018

    The only point to make is that this discussion is rediculous because nothing will change based on peoples hopes and dreams. That simply is not how the structure of our government works. Perhaps you should sit in the social studies classroom taught by one of your colleagues.

    The OP’s question was what to do to prevent school violence.
    Metal detectors, counseling programs, processes to put in place etc. These are examples of things that schools can accomplish.
     
  9. svassillion

    svassillion Companion

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    Jan 27, 2018

    We can't prevent school shootings unless we understand the causes behind them. I do not know enough about most mass school shootings with the exception of Columbine to be able to generalize preventions for them. However, when considering Columbine I'd say Eric and Dylan's psychology played the strongest role, particularly Eric's who I would consider a sociopath as he felt zero empathy for others and enjoyed having power over other people's mortality. I'm currently watching Mindhunters on Netflix and I'm fascinated by what goes through a serial killer's mind and the events since childhood that set them in motion (FYI, I'm not fascinated with killing others, but rather the developments and growth of science and psychology in this area). What if we as educators could recognize these events in our students long before it grows into violence? We wouldn't be able to stop all school shootings, but would we be able to flag these individuals in their adolescence and get them help before they go on a mass shooting when they are 18 or 55? I know this mostly only applies to shootings with mass casualties, but I think it could be applied outside of schools too where it's still a common occurrence. I would love to know what you all think.
     
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  10. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 27, 2018

    Personally, i’m just impressed with your ability to diagnose someone from beyond the grave who you never met as a sociopath.

    Unless you took the diagnosis from someone else who never met the person, or someone who had, but was not equipped to make a diagnosis. In that case, that’s just plagiarism.
     
  11. svassillion

    svassillion Companion

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    I did not intend to diagnose someone, especially someone I never met and died when I was nine. I'm also not a doctor nor expert in this area. None of us are which would make this thread irrelevant. My thoughts are a reaction from his journals he left behind. What I'm suggesting is what if trained professionals in diagnosing this behavior worked with educators to teach us warning signs? Similar to how we are taught to look for warning signs of abuse. Could that be an additional step schools could take after metal detectors, security officers, etc?
     
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  12. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Jan 27, 2018

    I appreciate the thought behind this, but I don't think it's a good idea. We teachers already wear so many hats. We teach, handle behavior, mentor, and feed students. We have to watch out for signs of abuse or neglect, bullying, and behaviors that might suggest special needs. Now we have to play psychologist too? That's too much for me. Where are all the other people in the "village"? Why must the burden of watching over, caring for, and modeling good citizenship for students rest solely on the shoulders of teachers?
     
  13. svassillion

    svassillion Companion

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    Jan 27, 2018

    Good point!
     
  14. Belch

    Belch Companion

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    Jan 28, 2018

    Possibly because that's what we advertise our wares as.

    We get paid because we say we can do those things. If it's not that in the states, then cool, but here in Japan, we are expected to do all of those things.

    What exactly are you paid for, if not for modeling good citizenship? Teaching students how to read? Not from what I've read here. Teaching them how to become good employees? Not from what I've read.

    I'm not trying to be divisive, but I do know that I am required to teach students how to fit in with society, yet every time I open my mouth here, I'm told "no".

    There has to be some responsibility, but as far as education in the states, I'm drawing a blank.
     
  15. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 28, 2018

    That’s not what Caesar said. She said she should not be expected to figure out who is suffering from a psychological condition which may not be apparent to an untrained professional not in the field of psychology.
     
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  16. CherryOak

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    Jan 28, 2018

    Regardless of gun laws, regardless of states, I think it would be good for education to develop/continue a unified movement to do whatever we can with what we directly control - our campuses, our people, our communication. The shootings are heartbreaking and they have more casualties than listed as some witnesses never really find a healthy footing afterwards. Are we really doing everything we can within our schools or are we letting all other actionable preventions fall on the public's shoulders? I ask this seriously as something I've often pondered. I don't know what needs to be done, but I do think educators are part of the drive to find a solution.
     
  17. Obadiah

    Obadiah Devotee

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    When I woke up this morning, this is where my thoughts were taking me. My question is, where are the parents in these situations? I want to be cautious in writing this statement, too; perhaps in some of these situations the parents have done all that they possibly could--perhaps. But I'm concerned that in the majority of situations, if not all, my question is legitimate. Parents are the most powerful influence in a child's life, and parental teaching, loving, and most importantly, listening goes a long, long way in guiding and directing a child.
     
  18. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Parent learning nights are probably a good place to start then. Bribe them to get them in the door with food and gift card raffles.
     
  19. a2z

    a2z Phenom

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    Yet how many kids are terribly bullied in school and nothing is ever done to help them? I've even seen teachers who contribute to the bullying of students by either their purposeful inaction or they are treating the student using tactics that reduce his social status making for an atmosphere that indicates it is ok to bully the child.
     
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  20. a2z

    a2z Phenom

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    I wish this was the truth, but I don't believe it applies in many cases. Friends, internet, lack of friends, school environment, all play huge roles in a society that no longer values the family structure or values standards that are beneficial to society. There is no longer embarrassment for poor choices.

    Society tells kids that their parents are stupid. They know nothing and to rely on their peers or media whether social media or what tv/movies tells them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
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