Let's talk school shootings

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Caesar753, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Jan 25, 2018

    Several posts have been unapproved or deleted (no, it wasn't all my doing). This is a hot-button issue, but we can talk about it in terms of humanity, not politics.
     
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  2. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Devotee

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    You misread my comments. I said we need to do something. Switzerland has a very high rate of gun ownership, but a stunningly low firearm murder rate. They accomplish this by rigorous training for all gun owners. Maybe that's the solution. If the KY student shooter or the Sandy Hook shooter who took a gun to school had a family that understood how to secure these weapons, we'd have fewer problems.

    To say we just need to address mental health is wholly inadequate. To protect our children, we need to have sensible control over all these guns.
     
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  3. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Actually, I read all of your comments and re-read them. I didn't misread what you wrote. Your sole focus was on guns and limiting them. You actually complained that it shouldn't be a school problem to fix and went straight for the limiting of guns.

    Do you really think the murder rate is low because people are trained using guns? It most likely has to do with the attitude of the citizens. Guns don't shoot people, people shoot guns.

    Sandy Hook? Really? The mom had a gun safe. You have no idea how he go the gun for sure. He may have know the combination or knew where the key was placed. Maybe he searched for it. You don't know for sure, nor do the authorities because the mom was killed as well as the murderer. We aren't talking about a toddler or young child getting the guns.

    The KY shooting. You also don't know how he got the gun.

    Mental health and societal changes will mostly clear up this problem because it takes a person. Gun grabs won't fix the underlying problem.
     
  4. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Why would rigorous training lower murder rate? That’s like saying if we made drivers licensing tougher it would reduce the rate of drunk driving arrests.
     
  5. Backroads

    Backroads Fanatic

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    Husband works in security. Recently he was part of an active shooter drill that was a little different from others he has seen. It taught the participants to recognize key things--apparently, in office/school settings, gunfire is often mistaken for typical loud office sounds. He thought that sort of thing would be wonderful for schools to experience (not necessarily the students as it was a pretty intense scenario, but great for teachers).
     
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  6. Backroads

    Backroads Fanatic

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    I lean more toward gun-ownership rights than away from them, but it just seems smart for gun owners to really know how to use them. (Sadly, despite my husband owning a few, my 4-year-old knows more about them than I do--Husband drills her in gun safety constantly. Husband grew up on a ranch in the MIddle of Nowhere and intense gun training was just part of growing up).

    So... is it really wrong to expect gun owners to be rigorously trained?
     
  7. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I’m fine with rigorous training. But if anything, it would make someone more lethal, not less.
     
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  8. ms.irene

    ms.irene Groupie

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    Jan 25, 2018

    I personally am an advocate for sensible gun control. I am putting that (huge) part of the equation aside for the purpose of a non-political forum.

    So aside from gun control, what can we be doing to prevent these kinds of shootings? I mean, as in prevent them from occurring? What do we mean by "address mental health"? How can we actively identify kids who are struggling or marginalized, and what can we actually do to remedy this? There was a post going around social media for a while about "how one teacher prevents school shootings" by basically doing a sociogram -- having kids write the names of three kids they would like to work with -- to identify the kid who no one wanted. OK...so what does she do next with that information? Most of us don't need to take a survey to know which kids in our classes are isolated and struggling socially. What do we do about it? How do we help? I for one have gotten zero training in this area.
     
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  9. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Companion

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    Switzerland isn't a great comparison in my view. Switzerland had a canton where women didn't get the right to vote until the 90s. The context for why they have gun ownership is different: all men in Switzerland are part of the reserves. (The lack of women's equity and the fact that they are not drafted into the reserves in my view are related). Men in the reserves train regularly during their adult years to protect the country as they are a neutral country. Of course they have guns, they use them regularly as part of their training. In this case, the reason for gun ownership in my view matters if we are comparing it to the US.
     
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  10. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 25, 2018

    Context
     
  11. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Depends on the training. If all the training is focused on better aim, then, yes: trained gun owners will be more lethal. But there's no reason not to mandate firearms training that's more comprehensive, to include perhaps footage of both the intended and unintended effects of gunfire on materials ranging from ceiling drywall (and who might be in the line of fire upstairs) to human flesh and a thorough discussion of the legal and social ramifications of gunfire.
     
  12. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    How exactly would that stop murder? The people who sit through those classes are not the people spraying bullets in neighborhoods and schools.
     
  13. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Devotee

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    Really? The problem is not that the country is awash in guns?

    Really? Just deal with mental health and it will all go away?

    Do other countries keep their murder rate down by catching bullied children before they can kill their classmates? No. Other countries have common sense gun laws that keep kids safe.

    We need to protect our children. That's a higher priority than keeping bump stocks available.
     
  14. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Maybe we should all just live in bubbles.
     
  15. anon55

    anon55 Comrade

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  16. Belch

    Belch Companion

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    Jan 25, 2018

    I highly doubt that you're going to get your second amendment removed from the bill of rights, so your "common sense" solution is a pipe dream, thus not common sense.

    If you want my advice, the only thing you can do in a classroom is to try to get your students to empathize with others. That's the opposite of what happens when countries are at war. They issue propaganda that attempts to dehumanize their opponents so that pointing a gun and shooting it at "the enemy" isn't like shooting a human being. It's more like doing the world a favor by removing an obstacle.

    This isn't going to stop violence, of course, but instilling empathy in students and trying to convince them that they are all the same tribe can't hurt.
     
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  17. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Jan 26, 2018

    Huh: I didn't know that no one is ever injured or killed by a gun by accident. Fancy that.

    But blowing off the very idea of firearms training that is more far-reaching than "Here: shoot closer to this mark" amounts to claiming that if the whole problem can't be solved in one stroke by one simple change, there's no point even bothering to try to tackle any part of it.
     
  18. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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  19. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    The examples listed included understanding how bullets pierce through flesh, ceilings, and drywall. If you are shooting at someone you are trying to kill them. You aren’t really concerned with where the bullet goes after.
     
  20. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    I was looking at training in terms of the thread's purpose and posed question. How do we stop the school shootings. In those cases, training isn't really a solution. These aren't accidental shootings.

    I'm all for gun training, even better if it is free to all so that all people know gun safety even if they don't own a weapon.

    When we are looking at school shootings and mass shootings, guns aren't doing the shooting, people are. Our country is a societal mess. We have abandoned caring about others for the most part (even those who have chosen an agenda and will help their particular group). We devalue people all of the time in many different ways. No wonder life is so meaningless to others or they have to speak so loudly to get heard (mass shooting).

    Until we solve the problem of devaluing others, this problem won't be fixed.
     
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