Let's talk school shootings

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Caesar753, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    The current mental health treatment is jail. In at least some areas, addicts are left to vomit and have withdrawals while lying on the floor.
     
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  2. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    If mental illness is a factor then probably not a good idea to arm teachers given that they probably suffer more than average mental health problems due to the stress of the job.
     
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  3. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    There are several arguments against arming teachers, but I think that is an unfair generalization.
     
  4. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    Not in the UK it isn't!
     
  5. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    Excellent points. Concerning the last quote I highlighted, more and more I'm fearful that decision makers are looking for a singular quick fix when the causes might, or probably are, multifaceted. Concerning your first quote, I'm right now also recalling other incidents of murderers who were also readers. My original thoughts when I posted were based on Michele Borba's research in the book Unselfie.

    My main point though is that the more prepared kids' brains are the better they will respond to emergency situations when they are the potential victims. Holistically, this would include a return to emphasizing proper nutrition and exercise, time spent outdoors, and communication through reading and oral discussions. I'm not so sure these are small areas in comparison to the larger possible preparations. For example, the other day at Walmart, I used the self checkout to get rid of a bunch of coins. The machine froze on me, then another person's machine, then another, until 4 of us were waiting for the attendant to find the customer service person. This was probably just a minor bug in one of the computers, but that small bug was important enough to hold up the entire self check out area.

    Onto another aspect of this discussion, though, yesterday I read a highly disturbing article in The Atlantic (Feb. 22, 2018, Heather Sher, What I Saw Treating the Victims from Parkland Should Change the Debate on Guns).
     
  6. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    I just found a very interesting FBI website page, ucr.fbi.gov. Using these statistics, in 2016, of the 15070 murders, 73% were committed with firearms, and 27% were committed with other weapons or tactics.

    Here's my thinking so far, but I'm writing in respect of other opinions, also. This is a difficult topic, with difficult solutions. Do we really need high velocity weapons? I don't know if it's just the weapon that makes the bullet so destructive, the bullet that makes the weapon so destructive, or a combination of both, but whatever the cause, do we really need this for hunting? for home protection? A high velocity bullet shot at a home intruder, or even a school intruder, if missed, will it hit another innocent victim such as another student or a next door neighbor? Do we really need a tremendous amount of bullets inside a firearm? Do we really need machine guns for hunting or home protection (from bump stocks)? I'm also recalling a rifle (?) on display at a wild game dinner I attended a few years ago. It was home designed as I recall, but it didn't look like anything I've ever seen for hunting. It looked more like a military style weapon. It made me wonder--why?

    I don't know much about guns. When I was a youngster around hunting age, as I've written before, an infection led to sudden severe twitches which would have made handling a gun quite unsafe, so I became interested in other outdoor sports instead such as fishing, biking, and hiking. I'm learning much about guns this month in what I've read. It's confusing, though. It seems whichever political party the author is of, I get different definitions on what is an assault rifle or other weaponry features. I find that confusing, too. I mean, rifles aren't Republicans or Democrats.
     
  7. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    You argue about the type of weapons, but your data doesn't break down the types of weapons used other than firearm vs not.

    Yes, because there is no true definition of "assault" rifle and many people writing articles don't know much about weapons either.

    Some people believe so. Some do not. It also depends the circumstance someone feels they may need them.

    I do not believe machine guns are in the hands of all but a very few who had to go through rigorous procedures to get them unless you are just using the term machine gun to represent any gun that can fire a lot of bullets.

    Depends on the situation.

    I read a few articles about the AR and some hunters like it for its versatility. Easier for small game and can take down large game too.
     
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  8. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    A2z, thank you for your insight. You've provided even more for me to consider. I'm just writing where my thinking is right now. Concerning machine guns, it's my understanding that a "bump stock" can turn an automatic rifle into a simulated machine gun.

    A note to everyone, what we are doing with 191 comments so far, I truly believe is important. Discussion is what will lead to solution. No, we personally might not be the decision makers, but this is the Internet. Some people reading what we write are making decisions, and perhaps our discussion is leading some to discuss this further with new ideas and new insights. Perhaps one of our ideas will lead to another idea, then to another, and then to a workable solution. At this moment, although 11 members are on the site, 428 guests are visiting, and I'm not sure what the 46 robots do, but they might be connecting to other eventual readers. Again, I wonder if President Trump or any members of Congress are reading these posts.
     
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  9. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I see your point here, but it makes me really sad that we are more focused on looking at ways to prepare our small children for mass shootings than on preventing those events in the first place.

    When it comes to victims and victimization, a lot of what we do seems backwards. We teach girls situational awareness and self-defense and to always hold their car keys between their knuckles in order to fend off a potential attack. How often are we teaching our boys not to attack girls? We teach girls not to wear tank tops or thigh-revealing shorts because it might distract the boys. How often are we holding our boys accountable for their own behaviors? How often are we teaching both boys and girls that girls' bodies don't exist merely within the context of how boys will react to them?

    When it comes to mass shootings, we focus on metal detectors, bullet-proof backpacks, arming teachers...virtually any solution OTHER THAN removing the guns from the equation. That's the problem.
     
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  10. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Until one can be fixed the other has to be used. There is no quick gun fix because it is only part of the problem. This country would not allow total gun confiscation. It just won't happen.
     
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  11. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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  12. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    Why do people keep thinking and making it sound like arming teachers means the school will give each teacher a gun (whether they like it or not) and will carry it around all day long, making it look like we're in a war zone.
    This is a completely wrong picture!! Maybe arming teachers won't help at all, but if you want to debate it, do it the right way.
    Teachers who would be armed would be those who are ok with it, volunteer for it, are cleared to do it and will be trained on it, which means they have to retest every so often. The gun is most likely locked up in their desk and no one will even know which teacher is armed. The way the school would look and go on about its business would be no different, but if there was an active shooter, the armed teacher could get his or her gun and possibly do something about the situation.

    Stop making it look like you're giving a gun to a teacher who has anxiety issues, never fired a gun, would never touch it, but you're making her do it. That makes no sense.
     
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  13. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I am very uncomfortable with the idea of a loaded and unattended gun being in a classroom where kids are.

    I can also say that not everyone who wants to be armed should be armed.
     
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  14. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    No gun should be or would be loaded or unattended. I assume the gun would be unloaded and locked up. Kids couldn't get to it, they wouldn't even know it's there. In case of an emergency it wouldn't take long to unlock and load the gun. Definitely quicker than waiting for police to arrive.
     
  15. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    It would be unattended if it wasn't on someone's body.

    Honestly, we've had purses and cell phones go missing from locked desks. Why would a gun be any different?
     
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  16. MissyB

    MissyB Rookie

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    I had about 6 seconds after the time my classroom door was closed to when the first of many shots was fired into my window. The attack continued on our school for about 6 minutes. I'm pretty sure that even if anybody did have a gun locked away they would have been unable to reach and/or use them during that time without risking getting hit by flying debris and bullets or the safety of the students.

    Even after experiencing that I'm not really a fan of having armed staff on campus. I don't feel comfortable having a loaded weapon in my classroom and I don't think it would have been useful in our situation. We each played an important role that day that allowed us to protect those kids to the best of our ability. I feel that if any one of us was more focused on getting and using a gun that day then something would have been neglected that could have drastically changed the outcome. I know not everyone would agree with that opinion though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
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  17. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    There should be a 'respect' button next to the like button for that last post.
     
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  18. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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  19. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. TeacherNirvana

    TeacherNirvana Rookie

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    Personally, I think the conversation needs to be steered toward school culture and environment. If you take school shooting data and combine it will bullying data, the picture of school culture and environment that is painted is one that is bleak and hostile. In addition to being a classroom teacher, I'm also a high school coach for every boys' sport. My number one issue is my players tearing each other down with negative comments. No amount of gun control will stop the violence with this kind of negativity. They will just find other ways to hurt someone.
     
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