Job Hunt Frustration, Venting & Support Thread!

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Leaborb192, Jul 7, 2016.

  1. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Connoisseur

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    I love how based on your questioning you show/ it seems that you don't believe the poster or the fact that Districts *DO* hire in this way.
    :toofunny:
    I think you need to get out more and see other parts of the country. You should visit schools where LTS are serving in the classroom with NO experience AT ALL. If I'm a District and I can get somebody who is certified in ELA & SS and he needs to teach science, just based on his background I would say he's intelligent enough to prepare and make sure he knows the content well to teach it. And if I call him in an for an interview and he comes prepared to show me how dedicated he would be even though he's not a content expert, I'd be OK with it. Even if he doesn't have a strong background in the content area, he could pick it up fast and be one step ahead of the kids.It's easier to fill an elementary position with somebody, but it's harder in the secondary content areas. But in that case, depending on where you are, you take who you can get- - if anybody!
     
  2. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Connoisseur

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    And that maybe the case... but worst case situation is that I get a rejection letter that says "Thank you for applying,'' and it's not like I haven't been getting a lot of those recently for gigs I *AM* qualified for.
    And I think I'll let the districts decide what to do about my resume, thank you.
     
  3. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    You can say anything you like. I've been offered 5 professional teaching posistions, all in K-8 schools, 3 of which I've accepted, and always steps up in responsibility and bumps in pay. I live in NJ where you could trip over elementary certified teachers as you walk down the street.

    I started with no connections at all and am the first person in my family to work in education.

    Probably all SPED/ESL/Reading Specialist type jobs recieve some sort of federal funding. SPED/ESL most districts would probably let someone without a cert get an alternate route cert and start. You'd then have to attend grad school in order to make the cert current. Personally I think that's as much a disservice to the students as hiring a sub, but obviously I can't advocate for every student in the country. If it was a school I worked in or had a child in, I certainly would.

    Any admins who would hire uncertified teachers is also going to cut other corners you don't want to be a part of. Kids not recieving services for example. You'd probably be part of that and named in the furure lawsuit.
     
  4. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Connoisseur

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    And that's great for you, but it's not everyone's experience.
    I'll even agree and say if the District is doing shady things, it's not the BEST, but if it's all you can get...
     
  5. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    Become a sub in 2-3 good districts, show your value as an educator. If you are passed over for 2 LTS jobs in one of those districts, stop subbing there because it's not happening. Also, focus on getting your foot in the door with an LTS position. If money is an issue beyond that get a 2nd job. You'll be much better off in the short and long-term.
     
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  6. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Connoisseur

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    It's very true! And I actually gave that EXACT advice to my friend who had a LTS position for the year and wasn't hired for ANY (and there were a lot) of the gigs that they had posted. She kept interviewing and getting passed over. At this point where I am now I don't even know if I will stay here past May when I graduate.
    But I'm just saying if there's a district you really want (for some reason,) apply for ANY positions --if you think you could teach them-- because you never know what will happen. It's not the best idea, but it could work.
     
  7. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Companion

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    I think it is important to be aware of how we are approaching applying and the message it can send. That being said, I think this is very regional.

    In Canada teaching jobs are incredibly competitive. When asked, I still tell teachers to apply for positions outside of their subject area. I say, it is your responsibility to put your best foot forward and it is the District's responsibility to determine if you are qualified. I tell them this because our hiring processes are very regulated and there are situations where there has not been a qualified applicant. The hiring processes are very specific and, unfortunately, in those situations if Teacher A didn't apply because they weren't qualified in the subject and Teacher B did apply (even though they were not qualified), Teacher B gets it, even if the hiring team would have preferred to hire Teacher A.
    So I think the key is knowing the context of your area.
     
  8. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    If a listing says no calls or emails about the job, would you call or email?
     
  9. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

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    LTS the year before in science was enough for the ROE to hire me. So 3 months LTS was enough for the alternative school to hire me, and I'm in my second year as the science teacher. Is it a "destination job"? Probably not, but they were willing to take a chance and it's my job to repay their confidence in spades.

    As many have stated here, the best experience in teaching is your own classroom, and sometimes, it's a circuitous route to get it. I would much rather be in the classroom I'm in now than still subbing...and most people would probably agree.
     
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  10. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    Except the students parents if they knew you weren't qualified.
     
  11. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

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    So far I have not been apprised of any complaints since I've been a FT teacher...

    I have ELA and SS from 6-12, but the school wants me to teach science. So that's what I do.
     
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  12. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    I could be wrong, but I believe in NJ, if a teacher is not certified to teach what they are teaching in a public school, they need to send out written notice. I might be wrong on that though. Perhaps one of the longer tenured teachers in NJ know for sure.
     
  13. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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  14. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

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    Illinois doesn't have that requirement that I know. My interviewer said that my recommendation from the science teacher I covered (at an elite Metro St. Louis district) was enough for him.
     
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  15. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Connoisseur

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    And what do parents say when they find out that the person in front of their child ISN'T even a teacher?! Umm... yeah it's happened. The schools do the best that they can do. If you told all this BS to Arizona's schools "You need to make sure you hire fully qualified teaching applicants,'' they'd probably laugh and say, ''You show them to us and we'll hire them!''
    No one is saying that it's an IDEAL solution for an ELA teacher to teach Science... but if it's that vs. someone who isn't even a teacher... yeah we go back to what I said before.
     
  16. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Connoisseur

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    I think parents look at from the POV that if the school trusts you, they will too, unless you give them a reason not to.
    :)
     
  17. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    With all due respect, the students would be better served by a substitue teacher serving as a class monitor, kahn academy videos, assessments created by a testing company designed to produce useful data, and a small group of highly trained resource teachers for pullout based on the data.
     
  18. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    I just read an article from an Arizona newspaper that talked about how large groups of parents were showing up to schools practically carrying pitchforks because of the hiring practices.
     
  19. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Companion

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    AlwaysAttend,

    I tend to be someone who works within the parameters that are set but I feel like your response - asking me if I would call if a posting said do not call - misses the point I was trying to make.

    My point was that if we should or should not apply to a position we are not qualified for really depends on our context. It is important to know how things work in your region when making the decision.

    Where I am we can get temporary (a few days to a year in length) jobs or we can get a contract job which is permanent. My first contract job was in an area that I wasn't qualified to teach in. I got the job because no one who was qualified applied for the job so the only people who were interviewed were unqualified for the subject (but qualified to teach). In my province, we often are asked to teach outside of our subject areas. It is done when both the District feel the person is capable of teaching the subject area and the teacher feels they are capable. Both sides have to agree.

    I would not agree that students are better served with a supply, khan academy and resource teachers. I actually think that if I had to choose between a teacher with strong pedagogy and weak subject knowledge or strong subject knowledge and weak pedagogy, I would always choose the teacher with strong pedagogy. I would also point out that not being qualified in a subject area doesn't necessarily mean I'm not knowledgeable or capable in the subject area. I could get my qualification for that subject. I actually only need 1 course to become qualified but I chose not to pursue it because it wasn't the subject I wanted to teach long term and the Principal was fine with that because they needed someone right away who they felt could teach kids.

    So I know nothing about NJ. Maybe in NJ everyone always teaches their subject. That isn't my reality. I've taught every subject my high school offers except science, music and tech (woodworking/metal/cooking).
     
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  20. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    Anywhere in the country, if your child needed a tutor for HS Biology, would you hire someone who had a bachelors degree in biology or a HS English teacher? Anyone who says English teacher is lying.

    If someone is willing to hire you, it doesn't make it right. Moral choices are made every day. I cannot convince someone to do the right thing because innately, humans are selfish. If enough people turned these positions down the state government would have to make drastic changes to correct the problem or probably face the federal government threatening to take over.

    I can't speak to Canada but I can speak to the fact that the US has 300 million more people and over 89% of the population of Canada is white so the teaching abilities needed are clearly different than Arizona. What I would also say is content knowledge matters and there are lots of studies to back that up.

    I'm not a fan of Alternate Route but if you gave me the choice, I'd choose them. You could genuinely set students back by teaching content incorrectly. The problem in Arizona is they don't even have enough of them because the pay is too low because the union (if it even exists) is ineffective. If I was in charge of the union, I would announce a strike and force the issues into the natural spotlight. They would be ordered back to work, but I would keep making the courts order me back once per month.

    If my entire family didn't live within 45 minutes of me, I'd investigate Charter requirements in Arizona and start a school every year where I plucked alternate route candidates from California and paid them identical wages to what they'd be making in California.

    Here is what I will say. This is a thread meant for people looking for jobs and I shouldn't be trying to convince people of what's right and what's wrong in education. For that, I'm sorry.
     
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