Janus case

Discussion in 'General Education' started by czacza, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Connoisseur

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    I didn’t say it was unique to my school. However, I am making the case that it should be the norm for the harder-to-fill positions. Do you get bonus checks at your school? I do. Do you get to negotiate for a higher wage after being hired following performance reviews? I do, and will do it intermittently. What step do you max out at? I max out at $100k at year 13. I wager you max out in the 20s and potentially 30s. Do you have to pay for your healthcare? I don’t. My class sizes are 25 and below in ALL of my classes. Are yours?

    I’m almost certain my private school trumps your public one, by leaps and bounds.
     
  2. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Connoisseur

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    I agree that unions built the middle class. That fact is irrefutable. But how can certain teachers unions say they are working in the public teachers’ interests when I hear about 5-year or more pay freezes, no COLA for pensioners, little to no supplies or support, and the list goes on and on, especially when said schools have the most federal funding? It doesn’t make sense. They’re not doing a good job in those instances and should not receive wages when they don’t produce results.
     
  3. jadorelafrance

    jadorelafrance Cohort

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    its well over 100k in step 19 (some previous steps are at or close to 100 depending on education) and MA step one is at 60K. Next year is negotiations year so I imagine that will increase for the following year. My biggest class is 21 and smallest is 14 although last year I had a class of 29 which is unusual, but they didn’t want to hire a part-time teacher to teach one overflow class. I do pay for healthcare but not vision life insurance (which is 2.5x my salary for basic) or dental. It’s the best healthcare imagineable and I’m very happy with it.The healthcare contribution may change though with the new governor. It’s state law that we pay a certain percentage of healthcare but prior to that our district paid it all. I don’t think we’ll ever go back to paying nothing, because I honestly don’t think it’s sustainable with continually rising costs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  4. jadorelafrance

    jadorelafrance Cohort

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    A lot of this happened right after 2008 and the Great Recession. There had to be sacrifices or huge staff reduction. It was as bad if not worse in the private sector. In some places I suppose it’s still going on, but a lot of that is a thing of the past, at least in my region. In some areas unions are weaker/stronger than others.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  5. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    I live very close to the district in CO that was mentioned, although I work in a different district. They had a tea party backed "reform board" take over many years ago and they have run the district into the ground. The general theory was that they chose this already wealthy, already very high performing district to take over so they could then brag about how "running the district like a business" worked. Well, they couldn't even make it work in what should have been an "easy" district.

    It used to be one of, if not the most respected district in the state, kind of the "gold standard" for teachers when looking for jobs. Trust me, they were not having trouble filling positions within any teaching area. They effectively disbanded the union by simply refusing to negotiate with them. The sad thing is that for many years, even though there was no union, the general public still bought the argument that any problems were the fault of the union.

    They tried the "supply and demand" argument, but also decided to pay K and 1st teachers more than 2nd-5th grade teachers because "those early years are really important." It's not like it's any harder to fill a 1st grade position over a 2nd grade position. They basically admitted they value one position over another. Teachers were also required to spend hours upon hours every single week filling out documentation and uploading photos of their work to prove they were doing their jobs. The district touted "pay for performance," but those that put in the work to prove they were "highly effective" only made made a few hundred dollars more per year.

    Those that don't support public education often say that if teachers don't like it, they should just get out. Well, that's exactly what happened. Teachers left what was once a "destination district" in droves. I work in a very low SES district with a much tougher population than this district, but former teachers from there flocked to our district. In fact, at this point about half of our staff came from there. Our school psych (who would have been in one of the highest salary "bands") had 17 years of experience when coming to my school. Although my district only gave her credit for 8, the pay cut she took was less than $1,000.

    At first, the board and their supporters said, "That's fine, those teachers don't support our vision anyway. We're just getting out the bad teachers" (even though it was proven that the great majority of teachers leaving were rated highly effective or effective). It's unfortunate that it took years and years, but parents finally started to realize what was going on. This is an extremely conservative area where most of the general public would support the anti-union movement.

    After seeing what really happened, parents finally started fighting back and supporting the teachers and there was a real grassroots movement to get out the reform board, despite hundreds of thousands of dollars pouring in from the Koch brothers and professional publicists being hired for the "reform" side. Parents saw that the best teachers were leaving the district, sometimes dragged out in the middle of the day in front of students. Test scores dropped , in a district where good test scores should be a given. They saw their property values going down because people no longer wanted to live in that district. The beloved teachers that they looked forward to their child having when their child got to that grade were no longer there. Positions went unfilled and students had a string of subs, or teachers left mid-year and were unable to be replaced.

    At the last election this fall, they finally got all of the reform board members out. Although this is great, there is already a lot of damage done. Most of the experienced teachers have left the district, and many charters have popped up in the area due to families wanting to leave the district schools. The district's reputation is in shambles, both with teachers and families. I will be interested to see how long it takes to build themselves back up to what they used to be, if that's even possible.
     
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  6. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Habitué

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    Unfortunately it would seem that the "reformers" met their goals.
     
  7. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Connoisseur

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    Touché, my friend. What is the max specifically? You said, “well over 100k,” so I will admit that I’m curious. With annual bonuses and gifts I will make about $110k annually starting at year 13 from just my teaching salary, and with private tutoring (also through the school) I will make about $140k-$160k if I raise my rates from my current $70/hour. I am currently step 4 and make $82k gross ($55k teaching and $27k tutoring 8-10 hours a week). :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  8. jadorelafrance

    jadorelafrance Cohort

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    I don’t count tutoring, bonuses, and gifts. That’s extra compensation that varies year by year and is essentially a second job. Ours max at a PhD is $110 with slightly less for less education. We have bachelors, BA+15, MA, MA+15, MA+30, MA+60, and PhD. Again, negotiations are next year, so there’s going to be a boost(were doing well financially thankfully).
    I’ll bet you can raise your rates. I don’t tutor a whole lot, because my salary is fine and I enjoy my free time, but I know our math teachers charge $100/hour! Our union recommends at least 75 which is what I charge. When I do it through the school (home instruction) it’s less (this is where the non union go seeeeeeee) lol.
     
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  9. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Connoisseur

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    Nice! And you deserve every penny! I didn’t know the average is $75/hr. I aim to eventually get to $120/hr. I have one colleague who charges that much, but then again they have been teaching for 30 years! I’m not nearly at her level, lol.
     
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  10. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Habitué

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    Prof just can't help but brag about how much money he makes every other post. I don't understand why you didn't just decide to work on Wall St. if the money is so hugely important to you.
     
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  11. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    It is kind of applicable here since we are discussing unions and how they allow teachers to be paid more.
     
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  12. jadorelafrance

    jadorelafrance Cohort

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    One of my coworkers once said that if he was going to stay in this profession, he was going to make as much money as possible (coming from another district to ours and original,y in private sector). I guess that makes sense. If you’re doing the same job as others in your field and are in the same region (COL) you would try and make more money if possible. With all else considered too (working conditions, students population, admin, benefits.etc).
     
  13. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Using that logic anyone who wants more money and/or better benefits should quit teaching and go to a higher paid jobs. They shouldn't support unions, they should just leave for more lucrative professions.
     
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  14. jadorelafrance

    jadorelafrance Cohort

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    I’m curious. Those that are non-union. What do you propose instead? Do you believe in the step/scale salary guide? What alternatives to pay and negotiation should we consider? Who has the final say? The government or the school? I’m curious about other perspectives. How do you imagine education without associations?
     
  15. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Habitué

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    Not at all, prof just manages to work his salary into at least a quarter of his posts (not just this thread), which strikes me as someone who is more concerned about that than the average teacher.
     
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  16. Sam Aye M

    Sam Aye M Mr. Know-It-All

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    I spent most of my career in a private school (17 years). I LOVED working there, and for most of my time there, they were very supportive of me and my goals. Even when I left, I really didn't have anything bad to say about them, and even today, they would still welcome me back with open arms. I left there to go to a public school district, which was union, and I more than doubled my salary. My benefits at the private school were much, much better at the time, but my current union eventually fought and made our benefits package more affordable. I now pay nothing for my benefits (I'm single with no kids), same as my old job. While I don't necessarily agree with everything my union does, as a matter of fact, I think some of their decisions are downright stupid at times, I cannot say that they are inconsequential to my job. They have fought for me, both collectively, and even individually on a few occasions. They are definitely a benefit to me.

    As far as Janus goes, I hope the plaintiffs lose, simply because in many (if not most) states, the Union is REQUIRED to represent everyone in collective bargaining, regardless of whether they are a union member or not. That's why the fair-share fees came in, because the union has to legally represent everyone, in most work matters. And that is just not fair. If there was a way to only have the union negotiate for it's members, and not have to represent the others in ANY matter whatsoever, I would be okay with that. I'm not sure how that would work, but until the law can be changed to represent that, I think fair-share is the most fair way to go about it.
     
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  17. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Connoisseur

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    This post is very ironic considering unions constantly fight for teacher salary increases, by and large. Public teachers typically complain about how little they make and ask for higher wages, but it’s not about money and all about the children, right? Why complain about how much you make if it’s all about your students?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  18. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Connoisseur

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    The school should have the final say, not the government. With that said, teachers are professionals and should be compensated a fair rate (at least twice the highest federal minimum wage starting, IMO). Teachers should have the ability to negotiate their own salaries and use performance reviews and test scores to seek higher compensation packages.

    I only bring up my salary to counter the talking point that non-union schools don’t pay teachers fairly. Of course there are exceptions, but I feel that I have more freedom working in a private school than I would in a public. There are too many limitations and rules there.

    As I previously said, there are many private schools that pay well, not all, but several do.
     
  19. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Habitué

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    Not even remotely what I'm getting at. I'm simply stating you are obsessed with touting your wealth. Period.
     
  20. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Connoisseur

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    Because money matters. Only a fool says that it doesn’t. Our entire country would grind to a stop without it.
     

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