Discussion in 'General Education' started by Ben B., Oct 9, 2017.
Oct 28, 2017
If you read what she wrote in this thread, you’d know she agrees with you...
I really can't fathom why anybody who condone this sort of behavior from a student. You have that kind of thing going on you are sacrificing the education of every other kid in the classroom.
I don’t think anyone condones it.
When I read about instant expulsion, references that the student's rights stops "where my nose begins", I get the distinct impression that at least some teachers believe setting the child outside of the education system permanently, or possibly even retaliating when the child is not in control. I am no guru who can diagnose what is going on with the student in question. However, enough information has been presented by Ben to indicate that at least some of the conditions many of my students have lived through may be present in the child in question. The district has allowed the child back into the district, and we aren't privy to any plans they may or may not be formulating to find a better placement. According to Amy, if in IN, no plans will be made due to money issues. Do I think this will be demoralizing to the teachers who will now be forced to work with a student who needs more than they are qualified or supported adequately to provide? You bet.
As for our foreign teacher/forum member, whether or not he agrees with the US DOE, certainly he must agree that those of us who don't live in Japan, but DO live in the US, are mandated to follow our federal guidelines. To that end, his comments are a moot point - we live and work here, he does not.
Amy, I feel extremely sorry for the situation that you seem to find yourself in. I am reasonably certain that I would feel compelled to either find a different career or a different state to live in under your pictures of dismal conditions. That, however, is a different thread.
bluebomber - the teacher is only one piece of the child's IEP team. What should the teacher do besides document and advocate for better services more in keeping with the behavior disability that is visible? Sometimes we are the sole voice of reason, but if we leave, there is no voice of reason. The more times this kind of student is passed on to someone else who is not more qualified to deal with the problem/s, the more damage is done. SPED is not for those who always respect the status quo. We fight every day to have our voice heard when we spot discrepancies between actual behaviors from what should be expected based on the classification/diagnosis.
Amy, I would fight for the correct placement of this child no matter where I lived. If I just became complacent and accepting, fatalistic that there is no chance of success, I don't think I could continue to teach. You aren't happy, but you continue to believe in what is right. My hat is off to you.
I'm not saying we set the kid aside. I'm saying there needs to be a restorative sort of thing where everybody gets involved and have a heart-to-heart talk. This can't be done if the teacher is in fear of his safety and that of his other students (I know I would in OP's case). I don't know the details but that's the feeling I get, that OP is not getting the backing from admins so that the kid can actually start to learn how to act appropriately in class. Honestly I don't really know if that happens to me what I should do, besides calling the front office to remove the student at the moment. I know I can't deal with a kid constantly disrupting class day-in and day-out if nobody else helps out. I mean there are higher-ups in the school who are trained and paid to do deal with this sort of thing, but what I find is that they do a lot of pep talk or whatever and the behavior issue is not resolved at all. The kid at the same time is not learning, so we're actually stripping his right to an education along with everybody else's.
Since the teacher has a place in the IEP team, their responsibility is to document and present data that the other members can use to reinforce the concept that the current learning environment is not working for this child. A teacher who is ready to present this data consistently stands a decent chance to influence considerations for more restrictive environments, or at the very least, one to one para's or self contained SPED classrooms. Done right, the IEP team gets a sense of urgency that can result in more testing, more doctor evaluations, and better classifications more in keeping with the behaviors being seen. At some point, the IEP team has to consider more restrictive placements, which can provide better care and a better chance to truly educate the child in need. The side effect is that the students who are currently being disrupted can now learn without the distraction that this one child brings to the table. It never ceases to amaze me when people assume that someone else will make all of the changes, without considering their part in the process. Just a thought. . .
Oct 31, 2017
Of course, since you took the job, then you accept the limitations that go along with it.
I will say, however, that the morality of "I'm just doing my job" is also being taught to your students. Just because it's your job doesn't make it right.
I would also point out that the forum doesn't mandate that participants be employed in American schools. It is supposedly "a to z", and Japan falls somewhere in there.
I understand the point that you are making, but it's not blowing any air up my skirts. It's just pointing to your red tape and saying that this is the best you can do.
As a result, your country has lost what appears to be a very fine teacher.
All she said was we have to follow our federal law.
I wouldn’t equate your position as morally above our policies.
Your laws are not amoral. They are supposed to represent moral values. So when your students see the teachers being moral by allowing them to be threatened and beaten up by bullies and nothing is done, they learn from this.
As to whether this is moral or immoral behavior that your students are being taught, I leave that up to your society to judge.
Nov 12, 2017
Ben B I think you handled everything brilliantly and I'm glad you're ok. I completely agree with so much of AmyMyNamey as well.
I want to ask though, Ben what do you mean when you say 'their culture is broken and their culture is at the heart of America's decay.'
Separate names with a comma.