I've chosen to resign this week. Need some help.

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Ben B., Oct 9, 2017.

  1. Belch

    Belch Rookie

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    Oct 25, 2017

    Well that's your problem. Not every child is entitled to an education.

    Sorry, but no. That might be true in America, but because of that, you've lost a very articulate teacher because you're sticking up for the student that threatened his teacher, rather than the teacher.

    That's your problem, and why American teachers are not exactly considered professionals once you get outside of the states. In fact, they're pariahs where I work.
     
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  2. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    Oct 26, 2017

    Ok, you win. Let those kids work in labor camps at the first time of showing unsatisfactory behavior. They can move rocks back and forth across a yard. Thank you for fixing public education in America. We are forever in your debt!
     
  3. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Oct 26, 2017

    I'm not sure about Japan, but in the US, every child is legally entitled to a free and appropriate education in the least restrictive environment. This is the official language, not mine. The problem in the OP's case is that the student in question should have had his environment MORE restricted, but the administration was not responsive.
     
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  4. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    Oct 26, 2017

    I am an advocate for disabled people, but their rights are no more important than anyone else’s. Their rights end where my nose begins, and if any part of their person comes into physical contact with said nose aggressively, then their rights are going to be restricted. That’s how it works.
     
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  5. vickilyn

    vickilyn Maven

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    Oct 26, 2017

    And you have given a reason for the correct placement. For some students, inclusion is wonderful, for others, it is a dismal failure. The job of the child study team, professionals, and parents is to find the common ground and assessment that helps these people find the correct, sometimes more restrictive environment/school setting. We don't get to discard them - we are here to teach them, as mandated by federal law. As the restrictions in the school environment increase, so does the responsibility of the teachers to be well versed in dealing with students exhibiting the disorders that got them there. Because there can be increased risk of violence, our staff is beefed up with additional aides, paras, therapists, and safetys, all tasked with providing the structure and consistency these students need. In fact, all students need structure and consistency, but at some levels, the need is magnified because these students can't maintain their behavior without a lot of support.

    This is a hard job, but having a team of individuals to work with each student can work wonders. We do not give up - even if our environment isn't the complete answer, what we have learned can help the next placement to be, hopefully, an even better fit. We work together to protect each other, other students, and the student who can not, currently, control their own actions. Because they can't - today - doesn't mean that the students will never be able to control their actions, with education and therapies. That's why we never give up.
     
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  6. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    Oct 26, 2017

    Very thoughtful and informative post. You are right, they should not be discarded and have a right to information. However, when someone is so dangerous that several students and staff members are fearful for their own safety, that student has to leave. It’s not always about that one student.
     
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  7. vickilyn

    vickilyn Maven

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    Oct 26, 2017

    No, but it is about following the federally mandated guidelines for the education of students with disabilities. In this case, the school or child study team has failed to get a violent student into a more restrictive environment where more specialized staff can more safely interact with the student and handle him appropriately. The knee jerk reaction that has been seen in this thread is that the school should set a school aged child with recognized disabilities loose on the community, ignoring the mandate to educate. How will he become better in that situation? We are in the business of teaching children in need. Where one placement fails, another may succeed. Putting them out with the trash is simply offensive. We have heard from the teacher involved, but nothing from the school that should have been on top of the situation. The real question is who dropped the ball with this student? I don't know the answer to that question, but it really is at the heart of the matter.
     
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  8. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    Oct 26, 2017

    So why do all tvs and cell phones have to be equipped with assistive technology? Clearly not needed by the vast majority. Yet the accommodation is made anyway to ensure access.
     
  9. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    Oct 26, 2017

    It’s to put everyone on an equal footing. It’s to ensure things are as equitable as possible.
     
  10. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    Oct 26, 2017

    I understand they may have a disability, but please don’t make excuses for a student throwing things, making verbal threats, getting up close in someone’s face, slamming lockers, and trying to kick doors in. What disability causes that? They may have difficulty moving on their own, communicating, and perceiving their surroundings, but this is completely beyond the pale. Case in point, I have a friend who has been in special education for decades and she said she has never heard of something like this and she has basically seen it all.
     
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  11. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    Oct 26, 2017

    But their rights are increasing the cost of my devices. Why is their right to equality more important than my right to pay less. That’s practically reaching into my pocket right?

    I don’t actually believe this but I don’t think your argument is any more convincing lol.
     
  12. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    Oct 26, 2017

    Plenty of disabilities would cause these things. How about any number of mental illnesses. I knew a child under the age of 10 diagnosed as schizophrenic with a personality disorder. I didn’t even think you could get such a diagnosis until much older.
     
  13. vickilyn

    vickilyn Maven

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    Oct 26, 2017

    I work primarily with EBD students, and they are exactly this kind of student. However, they aren't the only ones capable of the violence and anger. TBI, traumatic brain injury, will do this, as will bipolar disorder, anxiety disorders, being on the autism spectrum, ADHD, substance abuse, being sexually abused or abandoned as infants and beyond, mental deficits may make the child unable to understand and control anger, as will ODD, low IQ's, fetal alcohol syndrome, or being born addicted to controlled substances. A surprising number of our students come from broken homes, are wards of the state, or are living with extended family members because one or both parents are incarcerated. Students who suffer from dyslexia that has never been addressed are often prone to frustration that manifests as violence. When you add the possibility that many of these students have had brushes with the law or witnessed violence first hand, you have set up a scenario for bad outcomes. It takes a lot of work to overcome such obstacles, and sometimes we fail. But sometimes we are successful. The school has failed a child in need, and it has created a dangerous situation. Proper placement is still necessary and mandated.
     
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  14. Ben B.

    Ben B. Rookie

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    Oct 26, 2017

    Vickilyn and FutureMathProf - You are both right. This student should not be anywhere near other children without appropriate supports (security guard, aide) in place. Simply put, this student demonstrated years ago that he needed to be in a more restrictive environment. This was evidenced when he destroyed his principal's office at one school and a year later destroyed the office itself at another school. The student was then transferred to a third school where he was again transferred from from either threatening or putting his hands on his teacher. Again, during the 16-17 school year, this student came to our school and within the course of that year (last year) he wasn't on my caseload or in any of my intervention classes so I didn't see him in class, however, he still managed, on 3 separate occasions to push a teacher, try kicking another teacher's door in, called our assistant principal a "B.." and had many other incidents. - He had two separate manifestation meetings last year. We were his third school in 3 years and I was like - HELLO PARENTS AND ADMIN THE KID DOESN'T THINK THERE ARE ANY REAL REPERCUSSIONS FOR HIS ACTIONS- So it came as no surprise that he didn't think anything bad would happen to him for menacing me physically and vocally this year. And look what happened ... days after writing my initial post here, I found out that after the 10 day suspension, the kid was welcomed right back to school, no transfer, nothing. His parents -HIS PARENTS! Called the district and complained that his case manager wasn't respecting his IEP - I know for a fact that his case manager did everything as directed in his IEP. His parents don't seem to realize that their son has a very, very, severe anger problem that is going to get him in serious trouble one day. - And who am I to fight this battle any longer. By being an accomplished teacher and resigning abruptly in October, I sent as big of a message as I could to the principal, district, teachers, etc. There is nothing else I'm willing to do to support these kids and their neglectful, irresponsible, opportunistic parents. Yes I wrote it, "opportunistic" for all I know that kids parents told him to get in my face in hopes that I would have put my hands on him - this way they could sue the district itself. Maybe that's why they have been fighting teachers and principals every step of the way - it may have nothing to do with advocating that their son be in a regular k-8 building, rather, it may be so that their son can get into a physical altercation with a staff member - that way they can sue. Never again will I put myself at risk. And quite frankly, these people are lucky to have had me for 6 years - buying their kids clothes out of concern, buying these kids lunch for a job well done, digging into my own wallet on field trips for kids who had no money for lunch, making concessions with my own time. For what? Get through to a couple only to have a new flock of opportunists show up to harass teachers, disregard the welfare of anybody else in hopes of having a reason to sue the district to get a little more money. Not my problem anymore. I've already committed to taking this year off. The next district I apply to will have a decent grade on the state report card, and be in a neighborhood with a middle and/or upper class income.
     
  15. vickilyn

    vickilyn Maven

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    Oct 26, 2017

    Ben, I have never thought you were wrong to make the choice that is right for you. I do not have the same warm feelings for the district you have departed. Unfortunately, the kind of help that students like this need is expensive. Parents may fight it tooth and nail, but it is the job of the IEP team to find and fight for the right placement, regardless of cost. In an ideal world, no one would think with their checkbook, but some schools see everything through the lens of how these placements affect the bottom line. Know that I wish you well, even as I get up every morning to spend my day in one of those more restrictive environments. I never know what the newest resident will be like, or how my day will play out, but at the end of the day I am blessed with an administration that understands the difficulties of working with these students. I do believe that my work is meaningful, if sometimes difficult. I wish you the best of luck.
     
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  16. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    Oct 26, 2017

    Is there such a thing as stricter support?

    When I think of punishment, I think of spankings, taking away prized possessions or activities, or—on the far end—locking someone in a cage. That is punishment. It has its uses. It can work well as a deterrent.

    I see kids who need their backsides tanned every day. Then I see kids who really need some help.

    There are kids who really need help and really need to be removed from a school yesterday.

    Clearly, the kid Ben described needs help. He's not going to get the kind of help he needs in any normal public school I've seen. Kids like this, with behaviors so extreme, need to be removed from their insufficient placement and delivered to the sort of treatment that will yield measurable results.

    Those of us who actually teach know how much everyone suffers when administrators play god (act as if they can fix these kids) or just placate these situations like idiots. And it does take a special breed of evil idiot to ignore someone in dire need, and by one's own professional impotence cause irreparable harm to scores of innocents trapped in a hostile environment.
     
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  17. Belch

    Belch Rookie

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    Oct 27, 2017

    Obviously, I haven't fixed your educational woes. These violent students of yours are your problem.

    I am simply giving my opinion on what should be done with them.

    However, I can guarantee you that you will not fix your own problem today, tomorrow, or next week. It's just not a possibility.

    So all I can say is good luck! You're going to need it.
     
  18. Belch

    Belch Rookie

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    Oct 27, 2017

    In Japan, we don't deal in legalities like that. It's simply a matter for the faculty and administration to work together in order to do what is best.

    If this student was in Japan and had threatened a teacher in the way that Ben describes, he would be quarantined at the very least. Still getting his education, but not allowed to interact with anybody other than faculty selected for the job. Usually, this means the principal is tasked with teaching them, along with his/her other duties. As soon as they show up to school, they are sent to the principal's office, and then it's up to him to decide how to teach those students.

    Further violence in that quarantined status would result in immediately being expelled. Unlike the United States, students are not required to attend school. It is considered a privilege that can be terminated at any time. Students have no legal entitlements to a formal education here.
     
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  19. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    Oct 27, 2017

    And that is the 1000000 dollar question society has come to believe in most cases. Maybe, just maybe, it is just nature. Maybe we cannot fix all kids or cure all disease or keep everyone safe from accidents. But with lawyers waiting behind every bush we must find the one "responsible" to extract that pound of flesh, that $$$$. Sadly, human beings are not all malleable and easily "fixed" as society deems them or needs them to be. I have been a teacher for 40 years now. I have seen the new and old tried over and over again. Repackaged with new acronyms and such. Most of the behaviors and problems we see in schools now are caused at home or lack of home life. Throw in the fact schools hands are now tied in how they can deal with kids and teachers are LOADED DOWN with all kinds of nonsensical paper work and more and you have that recipe for disaster. Nobody loves kids more than me. I have had the greatest job ever and would do it again in a heart beat. But we MUST hold parents and kids accountable for their actions or our jails will continue to fill up and our society will be less safe each day. Violence in schools never should be tolerated. Never. They should always be safe places children (and adults) can learn and flourish.................
     
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  20. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    Oct 28, 2017

    Looking back through the thread, I'm not seeing this, but as an example of a natural consequence in another country entirely.

    I do see a number of cogent professionals remarking that the kid is in the wrong placement, however.

    If you have to have a police officer in a neighborhood school to keep people safe from a particular kid, something is very, very wrong. That kid should not be in his neighborhood school, because the staff clearly cannot manage his needs adequately, no matter how many meetings they have or recommendations they stuff into his IEP.

    Suggesting the kid belongs somewhere else isn't giving up—it's being responsible.
     
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