I've chosen to resign this week. Need some help.

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Ben B., Oct 9, 2017.

  1. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    Oct 12, 2017

    I go back to what you would do with these students though. 15 year old, shows violent tendancies IQ of a 2nd grade student. Where should they go? Prison, death penalty, padded room?
     
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  2. Belch

    Belch Rookie

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    Oct 13, 2017

    The student would be expelled at the very least. Prison is a possibility, although that depends upon whether the justice system gets involved.

    Your false dichotomy fallacy assumes that expulsion is not possible. Can you expand on this?
     
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  3. mrsammieb

    mrsammieb Devotee

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    Oct 13, 2017

    Ben,
    How are you doing? What did you decide? I am thinking about you!
     
  4. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    Oct 13, 2017

    In the States, if the answer is yes, administrators will generally do EVERYTHING BUT remove the dangerous child from a campus.

    Administrators will frequently blame the teacher for "setting off" the student. Administrators will attempt to bury the teacher with additional responsibilities associated with the violent student in order to bully tolerance from her. Administrators will force teachers to focus on pacifying violent children to the detriment and exclusion of all other students on campus. Administrators will call meetings and wring hands, but, in the end, the goal seems to be keeping violent children on campus no matter the risk or consequence.

    As American schools are dying from lack of funding, the loss of state funds for even a single child outweighs all questions of morality and good judgment.
     
  5. vickilyn

    vickilyn Maven

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    Oct 13, 2017

    Since there are specialty schools filled with this kind of student, I would disagree. Someone is paying the tuition and transportation costs to send these students to a more restrictive environment that is more experienced in handling students with these more complex and sometimes dangerous classifications. Do we get all of them? Probably not, but we get a lot of them. I do believe that the district will try many things to NOT send the student out of district, in the name of funding, but I also know that when students go this far over the line, the CST is working hard to find a better placement.
     
  6. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Oct 13, 2017

    It doesn't look like he's been on since Monday. Hoping for the best!
     
  7. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Companion

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    Oct 13, 2017

    AlwaysAttend, I typically agree with a lot of what you say, but what is this, non-sequitur hour?
     
  8. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    Oct 13, 2017

    Where is this happening? It's not happening in Indiana, I can assure you of that. These kids are being warehoused in neighborhood schools, where they get to run the show.

    Indiana legislators aren't going to spend an extra dime on taxpayers' kids, no matter what their need.
     
  9. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    Oct 13, 2017

    It doesn't seem as if Belch sees any obligation to the interests of children with disabilities. We are responsible for these these students until 21.
     
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  10. Backroads

    Backroads Enthusiast

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    Oct 13, 2017

    I'm probably wrong, but I want to say Japan has more of a track system for students of varying abilities.
     
  11. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Companion

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    Oct 13, 2017

    The rights of one student do not outweigh the rights and safety of many students. This student is very dangerous and if I were principal I would have called the police and had the student expelled at once.
     
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  12. vickilyn

    vickilyn Maven

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    Oct 13, 2017

    Zelda nailed it. The 10 days of OSS immediately mandates a treatment team meeting to reevaluate the placement, almost certainly ending in this student going into a more restrictive environment. We don't get to discard them, throw them out to the curb - we are obligated to keep trying to find a program that works. I don't know much about Indiana, but I know a fair amount about the rules when it comes to IEP's and SPED. We don't get to "throw them away" just because they are hard to educate. As far as a police report, that is always an option of the employee.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  13. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    Oct 13, 2017

    I don't think we've gotten the complete story as OP hasn't followed up.
     
  14. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Companion

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    You’re right, maybe I’m rushing to conclusions. However, I’ve never heard of a student, disability or not, acting in this way. It is scary for all parties involved. Like Caesar753 usually says, “I need more information.”
     
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  15. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    My assumption is the student never made it to the principals office and was then suspended while investigating what happened. People tend to like avoiding lawsuits an jumping to conclusions. Most locations have a mandatory maximum suspension and requires a hearing like discussed above.
     
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  16. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    Oct 13, 2017

    I can sympathize with the OP. I have had to try to teach children with similar disabilities. It is extremely challenging without a supportive administration.
     
  17. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    Oct 14, 2017

    You must get to work in a WONDERFUL school district. But I see this sort of violence every single day, from multiple children.

    In Indiana, violent, disturbed children are simply warehoused in the nearest neighborhood school, free to terrorize the staff and all the "normal" children. In Indiana, violent children might get a more restrictive placement if they bring a knife or gun to school to kill someone.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
  18. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    Oct 14, 2017

    Perhaps if things are that bad you should follow your duty and report it to children and family services. Or you could just complain anonymously on internet message boards. Whatever works for you.
     
  19. Ben B.

    Ben B. New Member

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    Oct 14, 2017

    Just an update folks: Let me preface this by stating that I am a male teacher. 6'0 tall and about 215 pounds. I'm not a small guy, I've been in the military, and I've had some really really challenging students in the past - never one that got in my face like this though..

    I see I started a big debate here. I love reading your thoughts and opinions.
    The student in question had already been expelled from 2 other schools within the same district in previous years. Once for destroying an entire office, and once for threatening or placing his hands on a teacher.

    This student came to our school last school year. In the course of last school year, he exhibited many of the same behaviors that he did during the incident with me. - Once trying to break down his science teachers door by kicking it as hard as he could, and during another point of the year he pushed a teacher out of the way as he was angry while going down the stairs. The teacher supposedly wrote up a report - but as you can see nothing was done about it by our admin. - Again, this all happened last year.

    I am not this student's case manager, but I am his intervention specialist for ELA. His case manager teaches him math and is in regular contact with his parents. I too had been in regular contact with his parents regarding his behavior. - A couple weeks prior this same student smacked another student in the hallway for no reason. The student he smacked wasn't even facing him, he was getting items out of his locker and was smacked from behind. - A referral was written up by two teachers, but again, nothing happened to him - no suspension, nothing.

    Regarding the incident that prompted this post two weeks ago that prompted me to post here..... I emailed a copy of what happened, including that I felt trapped and powerless, including that nobody should ever have to work in an environment where they need to threaten to call the police to be safe, etc etc. I emailed this to the president of our union, principal, and building union person. The president of the union advised me to use my sick time, requested copies of the security footage and witness statements from my principal. Everybody I knew advised me to never go back and to remain home using sick leave until a resolution had been accomplished. In the midst of this, I had already received an email from a district special ed rep which stated, in a nutshell "after the 10 day suspension, when this student comes back to school, I'll come by for an observation and recommend some strategies for this student." - Apparently the student's mom didn't feel his IEP was being followed. - I wish his mother understood that her son has a severe, severe, anger problem and that he is going to seriously hurt somebody one day and in the process most likely hurt himself. His IEP WAS being followed by his case manager. The issue here is that his parents aren't giving him his prescribed medication (can't force them to) and that, like many of you stated, a school that has only pull outs for special ed (no self-contained classroom) is not the right environment for this student.
    I ignored the email from the district spec ed rep because there is no way she was given the entire story, and I also didn't feel like getting stressed out anymore about this hopeless situation in this hopeless school building.
    I stayed home the rest of the week (10/3-10/6) contemplating my next move. There was an opening at the city job I typically work during the summer (cutting grass, sucking leaves, plowing snow). I called my old boss there and he offered me a job. - Doesn't pay nearly as well, but it's a nice stop gap. - Doesn't matter either as my wife makes good money and we only have one child.

    So, after considering all of my options (stay at home and try for sick leave, resign and work the city job), I decided to go with option B. I didn't want to stay at home wondering what would happen next with the district. - Would they allow my sick leave or would they not? Would I get in trouble for refusing to go back to that school without first clearing it with the superintendent? What if they stop paying me and demand that I go back to that school. -- These are all questions I didn't want to sit at home pondering while waiting for the process to play itself out. Yeah, I might have been able to get a transfer, but for what?

    This past Tuesday, I submitted my resignation to the principal, union president and to the district's HR. Funny but, as I was checking my emails from school one last time before resigning, I saw that our principal did not see substantial reason to expel from our building the student who created this situation. - The kid gets to call me a fa**ot, get in my face, kick my door, threaten my life, and gets to go right back. - What a horrible, horrible precedent to set for this student and other kids in the building. Essentially telling them they can make teachers victims of abuse with the consequence being a few days off of school.

    I have been teaching for 6 six years and since I started I haven't been the same person. -Waking up at 4 am everyday, hating Sundays because they meant going back on Monday, drinking at least 6 beers a night during the week and then consuming 24-30 beers over the weekend - no joke. - All signs of insurmountable stress brought upon me from teaching. I've tried medication, exercise, etc. None of them work. And please keep in mind that I wasn't the sort of teacher who did things 1/2 way. I was absent less than 10 times in my six years and I had never missed consecutive days. - Not until the incident that started this post.

    I don't regret resigning, but the last two weeks have been the hardest in my life. - The uncertainty that goes along with leaving a job and career behind is stressful in itself. But, as the saying goes -a step back to take two forward.

    Who knows what would happen had I stayed? Maybe in a month this student loses control of himself and begins beating on another student, I break the fight up and get charges pressed on me for hurting one of the kids when I broke the fight up? - Not going to be me. I've done enough for these kids and their parents throughout the years. Their culture is broken and teachers nor administrators have the resources - material, legal, political, to make effective change. - A war that can't be won. My only hope is that more and more teachers follow me out of the profession. My heart goes out to the teachers that have less than 10 years until retirement - too invested to get out.

    For my future, does anybody know how this will impact me professionally - if I try to get another teaching job in a better district?

    Is there still anything I can do legally to the school or student who traumatized me?

    And of course, thanks to all of you for reading and for your feedback.
     
  20. Zelda~*

    Zelda~* Habitué

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    Oct 14, 2017

    Ben,

    The things you mentioned are the very reasons I had to leave teaching Primary ED. In the eight years I taught it, it went from actually helping children manage their behaviors, to mental health issues that were way beyond anything I could effectively help with. Went home covered in bruises. Had a breakdown sobbing in the principal's office one time. The stress was godawful. (It's a broken system, you are absolutely right.)
    I begged for a switch and was granted it for this school year. I'm much happier, my extended family has even noticed.
    I'm not sure about legal actions. Perhaps a lawyer could help?
     
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