I've chosen to resign this week. Need some help.

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Ben B., Oct 9, 2017.

  1. vickilyn

    vickilyn Maven

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    5,886
    Likes Received:
    1,196

    Oct 10, 2017

    FYI - the student who went ballistic has a disability, too. The "behavior problem" is almost certainly enough to get him classified as EBD, ODD, and probably more. SPED teachers who are teaching the SPED students assigned to them are not "culpable" - they are doing their job. The placement for the student is wrong. Would you discuss the different SPED student in your classes with other parents, staff, people off the street?
     
    Backroads likes this.
  2. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    426

    Oct 10, 2017

    The problem is related to cost associated with out of district placements. They will usually try to avoid footing the bill as long as they can. OP has recourse to move the process along. Grievance, police, etc. Those are appropriate next steps.
     
    Backroads likes this.
  3. Belch

    Belch Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    15

    Oct 11, 2017

    How much does it cost to expel a violent student in order to protect the rest of the students?

    Obviously too much.
     
  4. Belch

    Belch Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    15

    Oct 11, 2017

    The lack of moral agency here doesn't need to be added to.
     
  5. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    426

    Oct 11, 2017

    Expulsion isn't the same as out of district placememt. It's more like transferring. The tuition at a private sped school can be anywhere between 25,000-250,000 depending on the extent of the issues.
     
  6. vickilyn

    vickilyn Maven

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    5,886
    Likes Received:
    1,196

    Oct 11, 2017

    Just curious - where are you located? You don't seem very well versed about the US SPED regulations or the scope of the children we care for.
     
  7. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    2,799
    Likes Received:
    247

    Oct 11, 2017

    Wow, a difficult situation to say the least. I do think that when you resign you should see your principal in person and do it face to face. I do realize that this won't be a fun thing to do. As far as the decision, I believe your wife and you are better equipped in making that decision than I am. I wish you the best.
     
  8. Belch

    Belch Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    15

    Oct 11, 2017

    I'm in Japan.

    Sorry, but I don't know how your laws work. That's why I think that maybe a sub-forum needs to be made to deal with problems specific to the legal problems for teachers in the USA, rather than the issues endemic to all educators, regardless of location. You guys in the states have so many laws to contend with that many threads here have nothing to do with education.
     
  9. Belch

    Belch Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    15

    Oct 12, 2017

    I'm going to ignore your alphabet soup because you have not made the case for its relevance. What is relevant is your question of whether I would discuss different special education students with students, staff, and people on the street.

    No, I would not go into specifics because that is not important. What is important is informing parents that they are sending their children into harms way every single day that they send their children to a school that has demonstrated that it does not care about the physical safety of their students.

    I have been most consistent regarding this adherence to what I consider to be professionalism. I wouldn't disseminate information about a particular student, but rather do my professional duty by informing parents that their children who they love are being sent to a school that just doesn't care about the safety of their children, preferring instead to retreat behind a veritable shield of acronyms.

    I'm more than well aware that American teachers aren't all that concerned about anything other than the relevant legalities, but personally, I believe this is a dereliction of duty, and an appalling lack of professionalism.
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  10. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    426

    Oct 12, 2017

    Seeing as many more teachers on this forum are from America than Japan, you should probably just assume that problems presented are from America. Sub forum not required.

    As an educator, we are responsible for every student, even the ones displaying difficult behavior. Would you expell a student with HIV to theoretically protect others from the chance of exposure? Would you consider it your duty to warn parents that this child is in class with their children?
     
    SpecialPreskoo, bella84 and Backroads like this.
  11. Belch

    Belch Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    15

    Oct 12, 2017

    No, I'll just assume that if your problems are legal, then you'd best find a lawyer, or contact your local representative to complain about local laws that negatively effect your ability to be a teacher.

    Yes, I would.

    My wife is a nurse, and has dealt with patients who have HIV/AIDS. She deserves the right to know that a patient has a communicable disease so she can take the necessary precautions when dealing with that patient. This is usually not a problem for other patients, but it would certainly be within the realm of ethics to inform them of the dangers posed if interaction with that patient might pose an undue threat.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  12. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,003
    Likes Received:
    292

    Oct 12, 2017

    There's a reason they are called "universal precautions." Patients with HIV/AIDS need no more precautions than are needed for any patient. I am sure that as a teacher I have taught students with HIV, and I never needed to know. Because I follow protocol for dealing with bodily fluids.

    I enjoy my right to privacy, both at work and at the doctor's office. I would never do anything to a student to deny them that same right.
     
  13. vickilyn

    vickilyn Maven

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    5,886
    Likes Received:
    1,196

    Oct 12, 2017

    EBD = Emotional/Behavioral Disorder
    ODD = Oppositional Defiance Disorder
    TBI = Traumatic Brain Injury (can include shaken baby syndrome)

    These are just some of the SPED classifications that could produce actions of violence. The student with any of these classifications is still entitled to services, but probably in a more restrictive environment. The child study team would have time, during the 10 day out of school suspension, to find a better placement for the student in question. Not sure how it works in Japan, but this is how special education works in the US. We try to find the best placements for the students in the least restrictive environment, but when a student exhibits behaviors that are not appropriate for their current placement, the child study team is tasked with finding a better placement that meets the child's needs. As a special education teacher, you are certainly aware that there is no one size fits all program.

    We continue to try to match students with the appropriate program. It doesn't happen overnight, but change happens. The student who made the threats has just as much need and right to the correct placement. Sharing his classification without his permission, or permission by his parents (if he is a minor), is unethical. Obviously, in the US, we have a higher regard for the privacy of others, and we have laws that uphold an individual's right to expect privacy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
    AlwaysAttend and Backroads like this.
  14. Zelda~*

    Zelda~* Habitué

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    12

    Oct 12, 2017

    10 days in Ohio means there will be a meeting about his placement, pronto. The law says after 10 days we must have a meeting about their placement. Obviously your school is not his LRE.

    That being said, I cannot fathom how terrifying that must have been for you and your other students. Would some time away help you rebuild your confidence a bit? Would knowing he couldn't come back help?

    I'd hate to see someone who certainly sounds like a decent teacher leave the field due to a bad (though no doubt traumatic!) incident.

    Best of luck, no matter what you choose.
     
    vickilyn likes this.
  15. vickilyn

    vickilyn Maven

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    5,886
    Likes Received:
    1,196

    Oct 12, 2017

    However, as a nurse, your wife has the obligation to take the necessary precautions routinely, not just with a patient already identified with a transmisable disease. Those precautions are mandatory, since not all patients have been identified as infective. In the example of HIV, by following the normal guidelines and procedures outlined in our staff handbooks, the risk of infection is virtually nonexistent, so there is no need to label a student as infected. It only breeds fear amont those who don't understand mode of transmission or routine procedures already in effect.
     
    AlwaysAttend likes this.
  16. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    237

    Oct 12, 2017

    The big mistake here was NOT calling the police. Someone should have called the police. Someone should have filed charges.

    This kid isn't going to be able to hide behind his placement or IEP for long. In a couple of years, he'll be out in the big, bad world, and the cop called to his house isn't going to hold his hands and talk about his needs. The judge he stands before isn't going to whine about his teacher's professionalism or commitment to children. Frankly, this kid is going to be dead or in prison within a couple years.

    It's likely the kid never went to the office, but walked around a bit and returned to terrorize the teacher. If he had been in the office, if security never intervened despite requests, then administration has put its head in the noose.

    You might have a lawyer write up the expectation that your license isn't to be threatened in any way whatsoever, given the district's potential legal liability for the years of counseling you are going to need. Even if you change careers, no one has the moral justification for taking your license at this point. I'm sure an attorney can explain it better than me, so please do contact one.

    The district should simply count itself lucky you don't sue them for a lifetime of lost wages and psychiatric services.

    I agree that the system is failing this kid; however, the system does not service this kid by supplying him with a steady stream of victims, either. His rights and needs are negligible in comparison to the rights and needs of all the other people in this school. His being in the wrong placement does not discount the damage he does.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  17. Belch

    Belch Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    15

    Oct 12, 2017

    We have special education schools for students who have been diagnosed with severe learning disabilities, as well as quarantined areas for students who are not violent, but have engaged in bullying other students. What we don't have are places for violent students. Sorry, but that's just not permitted at all.

    Thank you for explaining the acronyms used, but other than learning about psychological disorders in college, I don't find the distinctions important. As a teacher, I have a much easier job, which is to determine whether a student poses a physical or emotional threat to others. If the answer is "yes", then that student is gone until it has been determined that they can return.

    I am not a special education teacher, but of course there is no one size program that fits everybody. That's a problem for others to deal with. My problem is merely to determine if the students at my school are in danger, and then removing that danger. To me, a violent student is no different from a light fixture that might fall and hurt a student.

    This is where we differ. Once a student becomes violent, they might have rights, but not in my classroom, nor on the campus grounds. This doesn't happen overnight, but rather is dealt with immediately.

    There's a difference between sharing specific information about a particular student, and informing the public that there is a danger due to an unspecified student with violent tendencies.
     
    AmyMyNamey likes this.
  18. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    426

    Oct 12, 2017

    I don't think you are exposed to the same issues as we are discussing so I would kindly say you are out of your depth.

    I don't think anyone has argued for keeping dangerous students in the classroom with peers or teachers that are being threatened.

    Oh and does Belch mean something different in Japanese?
     
    bella84 likes this.
  19. Belch

    Belch Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    15

    Oct 12, 2017

    Those precautions are probably mandatory for her, but she still deserves to know. HIV/AIDS isn't a huge problem here, just as ebola isn't, but if a patient has either of those diseases, the medical staff have a right to know what they are dealing with.
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  20. Belch

    Belch Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    15

    Oct 12, 2017

    Violent students are violent students no matter which side of the globe they are on.

    No, Belch is not a Japanese word. It's a name I use here because I recently read Steven King's 'It' and a character in the novel has the same nickname. I think it's humorous.
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. UpperMidwest,
  2. MrsC,
  3. JimG,
  4. vickilyn,
  5. bella84,
  6. Rabbitt,
  7. Leaborb192
Total: 575 (members: 8, guests: 442, robots: 125)
test