Individuals vs. The Whole

Discussion in 'Teacher Time Out' started by callmebob, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    4

    Apr 7, 2012

    To piggy back off of the Lent and food thread; is it really a schools job to cater to every students needs even when it is not related to academics?
    I personally think that catering to every students academics as much as we do already pushes the line. When you go so far as to say we need to worry about what each individuals is and is not wanting to eat at school, this go beyond the bonds of necessary.

    If someone wants to be a vegetarian, that is their business, that is fine, but don't let it impact me. If it costs me as a teacher or a citizen any extra time, money, or concern; then that is a waste.

    The idea behind Lent and giving up certain foods is a sacrifice. During a sacrifice, you are going to have some experience of suffering. That suffering could come from that craving of food that you can't eat, or it could come from not really being excited about the choices that are actually available to eat due to that sacrifice.
    The end result is the same, it is your sacrifice and not everybody else's.
    So in the case of a school, I don't believe that everybody else should have to worry about the individuals and the choices they are making. You make due on your own.

    Now if only we could get this same idea leaked back into the classroom a little bit as well.
     
  2.  
  3. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    6,776
    Likes Received:
    151

    Apr 7, 2012

    I think it's great anytime we try to incorporate all persons within our community/society (and a school certainly is a community within itself), whether it's food, culture, ethnicity, etc. It strengthens the sense of community.
     
  4. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,939
    Likes Received:
    2,086

    Apr 7, 2012

    We can't be all things to all people...But we can, to the best of our abilities, facilitate LEARNING for all our students.
     
  5. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,946
    Likes Received:
    3

    Apr 7, 2012

    Who determines what is normal, acceptable? The majority? What the majority does or likes doesn't necessarily mean it's the best...

    I like the idea of veggie options because it broadens everyone's diet, and I think that's a good thing.

    I recognize there are limitations and schools cannot cater to everyone, but if it's super simple and does no harm whatsoever, why not?
     
  6. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,418
    Likes Received:
    1,251

    Apr 7, 2012

    I hope I am reading too much into your post. The bolded sentence upsets me the most. As a former (and soon to be returning to that discipline) special ed teacher, it is my job to cater to the needs of every single one of my children, regardless of the nature of their needs.

    I would ask you...how do you determine which children we should not be catering to?

    "If it costs me as a teacher or a citizen any extra time, money, or concern; then that is a waste."

    Again, I hope I am reading too much into this post.
     
  7. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,946
    Likes Received:
    3

    Apr 7, 2012

    Bob, is this just regarding food? Since you made a new thread and mentioned student academic needs I figure you mean to discuss things beyond food choices, correct?

    If this is correct, then I have the same questions as swan.
     
  8. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    6,181
    Likes Received:
    1

    Apr 7, 2012

    Okay, and if the government makes it a requirement for students to attend school, then YEAH, I of course demand that they provide options to meet the dietary needs of our students.

    What about students with physical limitations? Are they to suffer because we now have to go above and beyond to meet their needs? Or what about kids who are homeless? I know of some school districts that have washer and dryers to wash their clothes because they have a high number of homeless students.

    Or, when I have a kid who is upset because parents are splitting up? I go beyond the academics to be there for them.

    How is a child's decision (either religiously or morally) to be a vegetarian impacting you? And how is it a waste of money to provide healthy food?
     
  9. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    4

    Apr 7, 2012

    The sentence you just quoted there was in reference to food; not academics. (the waste of time one)
    Though I do believe that we cater to individuals academic needs too much as well. Students overall that is; whether they be special ed or just general ed students who we are expected to do a lot of differentiation for.
     
  10. KinderCowgirl

    KinderCowgirl Phenom

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,858
    Likes Received:
    0

    Apr 7, 2012

    Plus I actually think it would cost less to prepare foods without the meat, since the meat is the expensive part. It's not like only certain kids would eat those meals-many times when salads are actually offered I have a number of kids who make that choice. I don't think it hurts anyone.
     
  11. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,418
    Likes Received:
    1,251

    Apr 7, 2012

    Thanks for clarifying. I still disagree with you, though. Today's schools are not the schools that I ( and many people my age) grew up with. When I was in school there was no differentiation, no special ed, no catering to anyone's needs other than the class as a whole.

    That worked for us.

    It doesn't work for children today. The world has changed and we must change with it. When I began teaching 35+ years ago it was a different time, a different place.

    Children are different now, academics are different now, schools are different now. We have to be concerned about the child in school...and...the child at home. We have to be concerned about ...yes, what they eat or don't eat, how they dress, what happens outside the class.

    Is it difficult to be all things to all our children?...yes, definitely...

    That is the nature of education now.
     
  12. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    4

    Apr 9, 2012

    Just because that is the nature of it now, does not mean it is right.
    I understand being concerned about the whole child, but the lengths we go sometimes are unnecessary. The amount of differentiated instruction that is expected is absurd. We are teaching children that the world will adapt to them and not the other way around. In reality, once they get out of school, it is not that way and children aren't ready for it. Children are more about the self, in large because we have made everything about them
    Instead of telling them it is their responsibility to learn, we are saying it is our responsibility to reach you. No pressure on them, blame the system if they don't turn out well.
    You are right, it did work for us growing up (and I would still be considered young by some), we had thicker skin.
     
  13. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,946
    Likes Received:
    3

    Apr 9, 2012

    Can you provide an example or two of how we differentiate too much?
     
  14. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2002
    Messages:
    18,936
    Likes Received:
    678

    Apr 9, 2012

    I think we can differentiate too much. It shows up in the cases of kids who won't think when it seems at first glance to be too difficult for them. It shows up in parents who won't require their kids to go above and beyond but, instead, want to make it the teacher's responsibility. It shows up when parents and students think they deserve an A simply for completing work. In short, we are training our kids to be overly dependent. This isn't simply due to differentiation, of course. It's much more complicated than that.

    But, in this 'new' era, it seems that way too many parents want their kids to be classified as either gifted or disabled in some way (yes, I know that is somewhat of a generalization). Maybe that's 'cause I taught in private school where the parents were too over-involved ..... But, what has happened to the old work ethic we grew up with?

    I am in no way suggesting that people with disabilities do not deserve accommodations. My own two adult children are disabled.
     
  15. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    27,534
    Likes Received:
    6

    Apr 9, 2012

    I'm pretty sure that I'm the parent of the ONLY average kids in this entire nation.
     
  16. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,471
    Likes Received:
    2,488

    Apr 9, 2012

    I very much agree with this.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. Patrick,
  2. dr.gator,
  3. allaphoristic
Total: 323 (members: 4, guests: 292, robots: 27)
test