Hypothetically, how do you think overtime pay would affect the teaching world?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by MrTempest, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. MrTempest

    MrTempest Companion

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    During this holiday season, I have seen postal workers earn some nice overtime pay to their normal salary. I was how paying teachers overtime would affect the teacher realm.
     
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  3. nklauste

    nklauste Comrade

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    When we are asked to do things (trainings, meetings, etc.) that go beyond our contract, I believe we should be compensated for that. I don't care if the compensation is monetary or through other time off to compensate for the extra time, but we should get something. Where I live, we travel a great deal for trainings and there are times I have an 11 hour day to attend a training due to the travel time.
     
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  4. MrTempest

    MrTempest Companion

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    I do like your point of being compensated elsewhere.
     
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  5. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    As much as I would like to and deserve to be paid for all the extra hours I put in, that would mean I would become an hourly worker, as would all the other teachers and I'm sure most districts would be bankrupt before too long. Districts would also have no way to pay us for the hours we put in off the clock.
    On the upside, if districts were required to pay us hourly, I think that all the useless PD, special meetings, etc would magically disappear
    On the downside, would districts expect us to put in the majority of our duties off the clock?.
     
  6. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

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    In my district, all professional development and club/coaching/tutoring jobs that are before/after the contractual day are compensated at each teacher's hourly pay rate (which is usually quite high).
     
  7. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    The amount of proving what you are doing and doing it efficiently would be extreme. There are teachers who teach well and can stay close to contract hours. Others put in major overtime to achieve the same. Both teach the same grade and subject. Districts would have to reign in or fire those who can't get their job done in the contracted hours or close.
     
  8. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    This is very true. Do you think districts would have a set time for grading, answering emails, making phone calls, etc?
     
  9. ms.irene

    ms.irene Connoisseur

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    We get "extra duty pay" for anything that exceeds our contractual obligations -- proctoring PSATs, subbing for other teachers, etc. The rate is abysmally low -- $25/hr -- so it's not much of an incentive, though. We don't get "extra duty" for attending events or dances, since that is technically part of our contractual obligations.

    The fact is that most salaried workers work beyond a 40-hour week if they want to be successful in their careers. I have found that I work less and less overtime every year, as I become more refined in my planning and grading time. It's still more than 40 hours a week, but then I look at our vacations as comp time and so I'm willing to haul derrière during the week to have my weekends and vacations (mostly) work-free.
     
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  10. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    If we hourly, this would likely be illegal for them do to so.
     
  11. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Were we to receive overtime in the manner of your postal worker pal or such, I think there would be chaos or the teaching realm would be greatly altered.

    Like many professional jobs, teaching tends to work better on an exempt basis because we are given a certain task and can more or less take the time we need to complete that. I think a lot of places have given contract hours where one is expected to be there, but we're generally paid to do the job, not work an hour or whatever.

    As has been mentioned, some teachers do their job best when they have many hours to use to do that job. Others are more concise on their hours. Some like hitting around that 40 mark more or less, others may in fact love teaching as their hobby and spend far more time on it.

    I think to some extent, offering this theoretical overtime would get better work out of teachers (not that they're doing bad work, but they'll bother to do more because they're getting paid for it). You also might have teachers upset about the upset of work/life balance--Why are you making me choose between money and life? I think you'd also have teachers shuffling papers and chatting at the copier to kill time for those hours.

    That said, if the money were infinite and someone did throw holiday teacher overtime at me, I'd probably accept it.
     
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  12. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    I work a lot of overtime. I know some teachers that can be effective and not work past the contracted time, but I am not willing to run my class they way they do so after hours it is for me.

    In my district teachers are considered salary only when it is convenient for the district office. We're salaried when they expect us to stay until 8:30 3 nights a week at the end of the year for awards ceremonies. When we have to work the gate for athletic events. But when we have a snow day all of a sudden we're hourly and have to make up the time we missed, even if the students don't. One year we had to make it up AND use our personal leave days because the making up didn't occur until the next pay period.
     
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  13. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    Of the three districts I've worked in, only one has compensated us for any meeting or event occurring outside of contract hours. Staff meetings were held in the 30 minutes of contract time prior to students arriving. If the P decided to have more PD or meetings, we had to be paid $28 per hour for attending. I really liked that aspect. It held admins to not wasting meeting time on things that could be said in an email, and making sure that PD was really important and relevant. I will say that was the worst district I've worked in by far for other reasons though, so it certainly didn't solve any other problems.

    In my current school, it's part of our contract that admins can schedule 2 meetings per month for 60 minutes past our regular hours, which I've always resented. This year, P also decided we were all going to do different "leadership committees" which meet 1 hour before school starts 1-2x per month. Yes, we could probably get out of this if everyone banded together and pitched a fit, but people at my school simply aren't willing to do that. I work with a bunch of martyrs.

    As far as having teachers self-report work done on their own time such as grading, planning, etc., I see that being a big problem for many of the reasons already stated. I'm a very efficient worker and use my time at school wisely. I'm always getting something done. I would resent someone who spends planning/lunch/before and after school time chatting, getting coffee, playing on their phone, etc. getting paid extra to do their work after contract hours. It seems to me that system just wouldn't encourage productivity at all- why take 1 hour to do something if I could take 2 and get paid double to work at a relaxed pace?

    If you're trying to address the unfairness of low salary vs. workload, I think it makes more sense to just raise salaries to be more commensurate with the COL and other professionals with degrees (in areas where this is not already happening) and let people go with the working style that suits them best.
     
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  14. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

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    This is identical to the model used in my district.
     
  15. heatherberm

    heatherberm Cohort

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    In my current district our contract also stipulates 2 60-minute after school meetings a month. One is always an all-staff meeting and the second is either a grade level meeting or department meeting if you're a special areas teacher. (Special ed teachers and reading/math specialists rotate between grade-level meetings and department meetings.) We don't receive any additional compensation for any PD during the school day, but anything else before or after our contracted time - after school tutoring, after school clubs, district PD - is compensated at our hourly rate which is around $32/hr. We also get compensated for a couple of days during the summer though those are not contractual obligations. This is by far the best district I've worked at in this regard though.
     
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  16. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    You should not have had to use your personal leave days to make up days because that violates your contract, I think, as you are allotted so many days as a fringe benefit? And why should you have to make up days due to a natural disaster shuttering the school? Why should you be penalized for something that is uncontrollable?

    If you are paid on a salaried basis, then the district should not be able to switch to hourly pay when it suits them.

    This all seems contradictory to me. I don’t understand the thinking that teachers have to abide by district policy, but the district can’t abide by its own policy?
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
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  17. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    My contract hours are 40 a week, so I'd be in overtime quickly.
     
  18. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Well, those two meetings a month are part of contract hours because they are in your contract as hours you must attend. They just aren't defined in the way the other hours are and can change by choice of the admin.

    I see this as more appropriate than a contract that doesn't include such language and administrators call after school meetings and don't pay. In that case, it is not part of the contract. I can see that being resented more than a contract that stipulates that after contract hour meetings can occur twice a month.
     
  19. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    The people who pay taxes would complain. Even the people who don't pay taxes would complain!!!!!!!!!
     
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  20. MrTempest

    MrTempest Companion

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    My district has been adding more and more requirements. This "collaboration" trend has gone crazy in our schools. They are requiring more and more planning. We only have one free planning period a week. They are so preoccupied with "planning" they give us no time to "prepare."
     
  21. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    For scheduled things, such as meetings, clubs, etc..., that would seem to work fine (though instead of "overtime pay", just paying at a certain rate - whether their original rate or a district-wide set rate. I don't think it'd ever be feasible for paying for extra teacher planning/grading time, or whatnot, outside of perhaps establishing a set "allowable" number of extra hours, say in a contract negotiation, to increase total possible salary. There's just too much of a wide range of approaches / amounts of time one spends, and it'd be way too easy to abuse. Plus, there's already issues with funding!
     
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