Holding Kids Accountable Rush

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Peregrin5, May 24, 2016.

  1. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    May 24, 2016

    I feel a rush when I hold students accountable for their behavior. In my first few years, I used to be afraid of doing it or feel bad, but now when I do it I just feel a weight lifted off of my chest like "Yes! I did good teacher-y stuff!"

    I haven't had that feeling for a while since my students mostly behave (since they know they have to deal with me every day), but I've had some students outside of my class who have decided it's hilarious to yell my first name as I pass by PE. The PE teachers don't do anything about it, so it becomes my responsibility to hold them accountable. I pin-pointed every one and gave them a lunch detention. I pulled them out one by one out of class to inform them of this. After doing it, I feel so good! At this point of the year, we get kids like this trying to get away with what they can. And they think because I don't know them that I won't spend the time to figure out their names and who they are and make them accountable for their behavior. But ooooh yes I did. And aren't they sorry? :D

    Does anyone else get this rush?
     
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  3. ms.irene

    ms.irene Connoisseur

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    To be honest, no. I still hate writing detentions because I always feel like I could have done something to prevent the behavior in the first place. I also hate writing tardy slips (instant detention), but I know it's necessary to hold kids accountable or else everything goes haywire. I think a lot of it has to do with my own mindset and changing my feelings about discipline. I need to remember that when kids act up, it's not about me, and it's just my job to discipline them. I am so much better about this than I used to be, but I still struggle with this part of the job, TBH.
     
  4. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    It depends. I DO feel great when a student responds to a behavior intervention and changes course. The initial smackdown, on the other hand, always feels lousy, because my hope is that I'm doing enough to discourage that in the first place.
     
  5. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Yep...this. No enjoyment trying to catch and hand out detentions.
     
  6. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    I was going to comment earlier, but I wasn't sure it would go over well.

    Feeling joy over another's discomfort is never a good thing even if that person acted in a way to cause discomfort for themselves. I've known a few who feel that rush and find more and more reasons to feel that rush. It's much easier to find fault with something that you will end up getting pleasure from than when you find no pleasure from finding fault. Does that make sense?
     
  7. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    I understand the hesitation to feel good when you hold students accountable if you're thinking about it from a sadistic point of view. I think for me, it's more about the fact that I've done my job as a teacher (including helping them learn a lesson about their behavior and delineating the roles between student and teacher) than it is about enjoying their discomfort.

    In this case, I couldn't do much to discourage it in the first place because I don't have these students. These are students who decided that it would be fun to try to get away with being disrespectful to a teacher and didn't believe that anything would happen to them since I do not know who they are.

    I hope this teaches them a lesson in the future, but if it doesn't, at the very least, I feel good about holding up my end of the bargain, holding them accountable, and doing what I can to help them learn appropriate respect for their teachers. That's where my rush comes from.
     
  8. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Are you trying to say that you feel good that you are now confident enough to address issues you would have been afraid to handle before?
     
  9. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Yes. Or issues that I would have ignored before because they were too difficult to follow through with.
     
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  10. applecore

    applecore Devotee

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    I get what you're saying. It's as if you're finally made a break through in the crazy idea of making sure kids actually understand how to treat others with respect. It's as if we're getting through to them.

    Calling a teacher by their first name never sets well with me. Even my neighborhood kids that I've had know to call me Mrs. instead of by my first name at school. It's just a sign of respect, that unfortunately doesn't seem to be around any more.
     
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  11. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    I really struggle to wrap my head around this idea. I have never seen this as a sign of respect, I saw it only as an obligation as a sign of authority. It is only a sign of respect when they address you this way when they know it is not required.
     
  12. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    At my school, if you raise your voice to a student, you're likely to get into hot water, yourself.
     
  13. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    It is a way to show respect of their position of authority, not necessarily personal respect. The same goes for the society when they called elders by their title rather than their first name. It was out of respect for their age "position" in society, not solely out of respect for the person while they could also respect the person.

    The fact that you oblige is showing respect for the position.
     
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  14. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    AHH, this makes a lot of sense to me and is the first time I have heard it explained this way. It does not change my opinion of the subject but does make it clearer as to why we do it.
    I wonder if this is what most teachers are referring to when this topic is discussed. Now, to be clear, with my students and colleagues, I want personal respect, not position respect.
     
  15. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Also when they use your first name when they very well know that the expectation is to refer to teachers by the last name with a Mr. attached, then they are doing it because they mean disrespect to the teacher. Both to the position and to the person. Hence why I enforce this.
     
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  16. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    I also don't know that one is deliberately showing disrespect( they may be), it is very possible that it is the opposite. Context is everything. Not to mention, in the situation you describe, where the expectation is to refer to a teacher by last name with Mr. attached, you have to assume they are only showing respect to the title or fear of consequences, NOT respect for the person.

    I personally don't want respect for my position as a teacher from my students, I only want respect as the person.

    Different strokes for different folks.
     
  17. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    As you said, context is everything. (In this particular context they're screaming my first name as loudly as possible across the blacktop as I walk by their PE class repeatedly, so it was pretty clear.)

    I also find that it is more likely that a student respects a teacher as a person once they first respect their position as a teacher. And they will only respect the teachers' position if the teacher respects their own position enough to hold students accountable for showing respect for it. Kind of confusing, but basically, if I just let students decide to refer to me by my first name and see me as a peer rather than a teacher, then it's much harder to hold students accountable because then they see you as someone who is equal to them and wants to be their friend. It is impossible to create a safe space for all of my students from this position. A teacher should be a teacher. Not a peer.
     
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  18. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Yeah, I think A2Z nailed it. Some people see it as coming from a title, others will see it as something that is developed with actions.
     
  19. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    It is developed through actions. For example the action I took to hold students accountable for addressing teachers respectfully.
     
  20. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    The you I speak of is the general you, not you, Pashtun.

    Society has changed a lot. Prior to the 60s people respected authority and titles without action to back it up first. That is not to say that someone couldn't respect the person from what they learned about a person they did not know or couldn't learn to respect the person through the actions they see. Society shifted in the 60s and 70s from respecting authority and elders to questioning everything and not giving respect until it is earned. Sometimes the respect for authority or title came from the amount of work that was required to earn the title or the position. Sometimes it was just the respect that comes with the idea that elders have more life experience so we should defer to respect for the age (or title) prior to knowing more about them.

    But lovely catch phrases came around and caught on such as "Respect is not given, it is earned." People say it all the time without thinking about the meaning. Now society is reaping the reward for that idea of thinking. There is no reason to be respectful to a person you don't respect until they earn that respect which will probably not happen easily since the way you approach that person from the beginning is with disrespect which in turn, even if the person defers to respect first, ends up looking at the disrespectful person as someone who has given reason to not be respected.

    So, next time the idea floats around that "respect is not given, it is earned" really think about what that means. Then think about if you really apply this standard to all of your interactions or if you really refer back to the fact that you respect the position and give general respect (and civility) to the person until they do something that makes you question their character and lose your general respect.

    Now, when you have almost 2 generations of people working under the idea that "respect is not given, it is earned" and respect is not given to authority or elders, we have mayhem in society because the general disrespect initially given because the respect is not earned yet causes lack of respect for the other. We lost the part where earning the respect is sometimes about age, choice of position, etc.

    Also, with the lack of respect in general, I feel that many no longer connect the idea that using manners and societal expectations is the first form of respect. (I'm not talking about going overboard.)
     
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  21. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Sorry, the action you took does not develop respect imo.
     

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