Exclusionary seating arrangement - special spot for misbehaved kids

Discussion in 'Elementary Education' started by alabama, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. alabama

    alabama Rookie

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    Mar 27, 2019

    Hello all,

    I found out that my overly chatty, disprutive, and sometimes inappropriate child is being asked to go to a particular area of the classroom. She calls this area the "quiet table" where she is expected to sit quietly. The teacher calls this the table at the back (not the quiet table).

    I am having a hard time with this, and wanted to see if special seating areas for misbehaved kids is common. I'm concerned that the physical separation, while helpful for classroom conduct, might result in my daughter getting labelled a misbehaved child. (Yes, I know that she earns this on her own with or without a special seat.) I asked her about the other kids who sit at this spot and she readily agrees that they are all the "bad" kids in the class, and then suddenly realizes that others might think of her as a "bad" kid.

    My daughter is intelligent and sadly misbehaves a lot when she gets bored. I feel that she is a fast learner, gets bored, and then doesn't use her energy in a good manner. I wish she'd sit quietly and not be disruptive.

    She has taken the Cogat and has scored around 95% / 96% in the screening Cogat, and scored 95% in the quantative portion of the full Cogat last year. She took the full Cogat as well as the ITBS this year as part of highly capable screening but we will not know the results until May. If she qualifies for a highly capable environment, she'll be placed in that next September.

    I'm really struggling at how to advocate for her while helping her as well.

    Any advice?
     
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  3. rpan

    rpan Cohort

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    Mar 28, 2019

    I’m not sure what your daughters age is but I think it can be acceptable practice to physically separate your child from distractions for part of the lesson when she is disrupting the class and learning of others, but not for whole lessons day after day. It can be an aid to help your child help herself to self regulate. It should also be part of an overall classroom management strategy but not the only strategy and the teacher is implementing this strategy to the class fairly and not just your daughter.
    Its not a bad thing for kids to learn some self regulation and what is appropriate and inappropriate behaviour in a classroom. All students have a right to a non-disrupted education as each other.
    In the meantime, you could support the teacher by giving the teacher any strategies you know works with your daughter or work with the teacher to have a reward plan for positive choices, having consistent expectations with your daughter about the choices she makes in school etc. I wouldn’t undermine the teacher but work with her. Advocate for your child if your child is being unfairly picked on or excluded or if the consequence impacts on your child’s learning but not to get your child out of a consequence that she has earned, because that is a learning opportunity on accountability of actions.
     
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  4. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    Mar 28, 2019

    Think about what you'd do if your child was sitting next to a student who distracted her by misbehaving or not being quiet. You would probably think the teacher should move that student so your child could do her work. If your daughter doesn't want to sit at that particular table she needs to act appropriately so she can sit with the other students. It's basically up to her.
     
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  5. Aces

    Aces Habitué

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    Mar 28, 2019

    A "quiet time" punishment like this is a pretty typical behavioral management technique. We as teachers set classroom expectations for our students and we also set consequences for following or disobeying those expectations. At the end of the day, students need consequences and we as teachers have to follow through otherwise we run the risk of having ~30 completely out of control students running amuck.

    So for your daughter, there's two things I would try to advocate: 1) she needs to control her behavior. If she's bored, make sure she has a book to read or something of that nature she can turn to when she gets finished early to keep her occupied. Partner with get teacher to come up with constructive ways to spend that extra time without disturbing the rest of the class.

    And 2) talk with her teachers/admin team to see if placing her in a higher class would be appropriate. That way she's more academically challenged and doesn't get bored as easily.

    This next part is going to be hard to hear but please believe me I don't say it lightly or without experience. I'm a parent of twin teenage boys who get into trouble. I'd like to say they're perfect angels but they're not. Children need to be held accountable for their actions. It's easy to say well it's obviously the teachers fault for not giving enough work, it's the other kids faults for encouraging her behavior. It's easy to blame someone else except the right person. We cannot control the actions of others, only our own.
     
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  6. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    Mar 28, 2019

    I agree completely.

    I also suggest thinking about your daughter's academic abilities as completely separate from her ability to behave in class. Having a high IQ does not give a child a free pass to misbehave when they are bored. I'm not saying this is what you specifically think, but I have seen parents have that opinion, and it's harmful to the child in my opinion. Part of being intelligent is learning how to challenge yourself - perhaps your daughter could take a sudoku book or chapter book at her independent reading level to pick up when she finishes her work so that she's not tempted to talk to others at that time. Writing a story or play is another great option. Talk with your child's teacher to see what she recommends. If you're wanting to make things positive, check in with her on how those extra activities are going... Ask if she finished any Sudoku puzzles, for example, and make a big deal about how nice it is that she's challenging herself and trying her hardest. If she's getting those extras done, it probably means she's staying out of trouble more often, even if you're not specifically praising her for that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
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  7. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    Mar 28, 2019

    Many students will, with time, learn to self regulate their behaviors - we used to say that they would grow out of it. I feel for the parent who started the thread, but would like to suggest that perhaps, if at all possible, they find a way to routinely volunteer at the child's school, not necessarily in the child's classroom. When my son was in elementary school, parents could volunteer to come in as listeners, someone to listen to students read aloud. In my case, it led to more opportunities to work with students in the classrooms, chaperone, become a substitute aide, substitute teacher, and eventually a full time teacher. It is eye opening, and gives a different perspective than many parents ever achieve. The more time one can spend inside the school, the more apparent it is that some students struggle to find balance and self control. It is also enlightening to see how a very few students with behavior problems can change the climate of learning for all students within the classroom. It may also allow a parent who becomes "a fixture" in the school to see what many parents never get to see. It also gives access to professionals who may be able to suggest courses of action for OP's student that may include evaluation by the Child Study Team, to help identify learning problems, with concrete suggestions about how to proceed to get the best possible help for OP's student.

    My own son was classified very young, and I started volunteering in his classes when he was only three years old. Seeing how he was functioning, and seeing gradients of students with special needs definitely helped me be a strong, but knowledgeable advocate for him, and taught me ways to deal with behavior problems in ways that helped me understand what, and why, the teachers followed certain courses of action. I went into this with eyes wide open, without making excuses for my son's behaviors, and it was a learning experience second to none. Eventually I became a sub, the one most frequently called both during and outside of school hours. The students came to think of me as "staff", not Boy X's mother, so I got a valuable view of how parents can be part of the problem, or part of the solutions. I believe that the time I spent in the schools definitely made me more of a partner in my son's educational process, and a much more aware individual of how any parent needs to see the "big picture" within the classrooms.

    My experience led me to my certificate and more education in the needs many students experience. Today I teach SPED, as well as ESL, and I feel blessed for those early years where my eyes were opened, and my understanding of how many different forms of help many students may require became clear. OP, if you are able to find a way to volunteer in the classrooms you will also earn an education that will benefit you and your child. Let me wish you the very best as you support, but don't make excuses for, your daughter's needs. I wish every parent could experience the time to be a mouse in the classroom, able to see the best and the worst of everything that happens on any given day. Such experience is a blessing. Best of luck.
     
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  8. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    Mar 29, 2019

    Learning to self-regulate under any circumstance is a fantastic life skill.

    I have often told parents that ADHD, ODD, boredom, etc. are not excuses for poor behavior. It just means the child has to work harder to keep things in check.
     
  9. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Mar 29, 2019

    What I came here to say.

    OP, it does sound like you have high expectations behaviorly and academically for your daughter. Kudos for expecting good behavior, kudos for going through the processes to seek accommodation for any gifted needs. I also understand your desire to want a consequence for your daughter that avoids labeling.

    However, that can be a very hard thing to separate from natural consequences. I'm scratching my brain to figure out what else I could do with an overtalkative/inappropriately talkative student in the immediate time frame that doesn't involve separating them and I am coming up with nothing. Separating a misbehaving student from triggers is extremely common.

    I agree with talking to the teacher about some prevention strategies that work at home. Giving her alternate work may or may not work. It is key that she does learn to behave, and more often than not that behavior has nothing to do with boredom.
     
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  10. alabama

    alabama Rookie

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    Mar 30, 2019

    Thanks all.

    I appreciate your responses. In particular, I appreciate the one person who explained that a temporary change in seating to address a issue at the moment is appropriate while a permanent seating change wouldn't be appropriate.

    No, it's not that my child is "too smart" for school, as much as I would like to think that it was. We got her report card and the subject that she had described as boring and she thought she was too advanced for, she actually didn't do that well in. So we have some work to do.

    She is no angel at home...trust me on this. We're fortunate she does as well as she does at school.
     
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  11. Aces

    Aces Habitué

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    Mar 30, 2019

    And it could be she's not trying because she's bored. Grades don't always indicate subject mastery.
     
  12. Teacher234

    Teacher234 Cohort

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    Apr 9, 2019

    I hate to say it, but boredom and the content being too easy should NEVER be a justification for poor behavior.
    I would say the quiet table is a fair consequence for a misconduct. It is essentially the same concept as a time out chair in the corner. As far as your child being labelled goes, the other students likely will not notice. Teachers do talk (I know...I kind of am one), however, teachers do not use the experience of a preceding child's teacher to make judgement about him/her. (I do not even do this with my students year to year and I teach most of my students for three years.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  13. Lei286

    Lei286 Rookie

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    Apr 17, 2019

    I had a student (we'll call them Sam) seated by themself simply because Sam could not seem to keep from a.) getting distracted and b.) keep hands off others. I had others students crying and their parents emailing me about Sam's inability to listen to classmates and leave them alone. Moving Sam away was a last resort. I was in fairly regular contact with Sam's parents so when I told them their child was being moved, they agreed to it.

    If giving a student more personal/quiet space will help them learn better, then I am for it. If it improves that student's social standing with their peers, then I am for it.
     
  14. CherryOak

    CherryOak Companion

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    Apr 18, 2019

    Mind you, in older grades, many students will ask to temporarily relocate to help them focus or avoid triggers for poor behavior. Perhaps she can soon see the opportunity to succeed it affords her? It's all about how it's framed and carried out.
     

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