Education is a Right that is easily compromised by teacher pay

Discussion in 'General Education' started by AlwaysAttend, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Companion

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    No I don't think we should live in a utopia. But I do think how you speak to me sometimes isn't very nice. When you questioned my morality, I let it go. But I just don't think it is necessary for you speak to me like this: "As someone who has helped prepare a budget, these costs are not drawn from the same budget accounts. You can't just move money around like that."

    To me this feels condescending. It's not appealing. It doesn't make me want to converse with you. To me it sounds like you are saying you have more experience with budgets and have a better understanding of budgets. It also implies that having that knowledge is something to hold over other people.
     
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  2. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Phenom

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    Expulsion is very rare here. We had four students expelled from our school last year. Due to the nature of their infractions, they were not permitted back this year. (8th graders) There are no other schools in our district. The parents were either going to have to homeschool or pay to enroll them in private school in an adjoining county. They are enrolled in virtual school.

    I can't readily think of another expulsion in my 25 years in the district. There may have been some, though. It's very rare. I'm thinking these we had last year were a first for our building.
     
  3. Backroads

    Backroads Enthusiast

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    This is generally how charters already work. They fall under the jurisdiction of state or district.

    You're still saying a charter should have more responsibility for an expelled student than any other school. I still don't understand why.

    What suggestions would you have for a charter maintaining responsibility?
     
  4. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    This is what I was saying.

    I also didn't call you personally immoral (I don't know you at all) but advising people to take jobs they are unqualified for when students are at stake is not something I am ok with, and i think doing so is not good.

    Your positions sound fantastic but are not realistic. It's like trying to have a debate on superpowers. Sure I think flying would be awesome, but I can't grow wings. So I guess i could build a jet pack. To do that I'd have to study various fields of engineering, secure financing, and survive all of the test flights.

    That's about the same as what your suggesting become installed in a country of 50 states. These states are basically run like their own countries. So actually it's more like enacting policies across the European Union, but doubled. Except our "countries" can't leave.

    Since you want to return to the original question, it was how to band together to generate higher wages in states with low wages. You could get a bunch of people together who demand to be paid better. That's realistic. We couldn't get all 50 states to agree what color a classroom should be painted if we only gave them one choice.
     
  5. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Companion

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    AlwaysAttend, do you really not see why saying what you said is rude? I am also really curious how you know that you have more experience with budgets than me?
     
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  6. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    I've helped to prepare them and had to edit them to find mistakes.

    I'm not being rude, I'm being direct.
     
  7. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    Do you know if this virtual school the students had to attend after expulsion was private or charter? To the best of my knowledge states don't operate virtual schools but I could be wrong.
     
  8. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Companion

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    You actually have no idea what experience I have so I don't know how you can possibly know that preparing them and editing means you have more experience than me. I really did hope we could talk about this but that's okay. I can see it is just not going to happen.
     
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  9. Backroads

    Backroads Enthusiast

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    A few do.

    I'm assuming your point is that a public school expelled students and possibly shifted tge responsibility for schooling back to them.
     
  10. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    It would have served as a nice little bow to wrap up this thread is all lol. I like an elegant conclusion and I think this thread has probably reached its conclusion.
     
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  11. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    You said in the other thread you are a high school teacher. It sounded like in class support/math if I'm remembering right but I suppose I could be confusing your content area or you entirely with someone else. Am I missing something else? If I'm wrong (it does happen), I'll happily apologize.
     
  12. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Phenom

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    It's state run.
     
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  13. anon55

    anon55 Comrade

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    I am not considering charter schools because they skim the students they want, so their numbers are not trustworthy. They have a hundred ways of selecting their students: requiring mandatory orientations that only parents who don't work can attend, requiring expensive (for poorer people) uniforms, requiring parent volunteer hours, calling many meetings for a child's behavior and just wearing the parent out until they withdraw the kid, etc. There's many more examples here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...se-desirable-students/?utm_term=.412c51c8624e.

    Even if you don't accept my argument that charter schools are private schools in all but name, the case remains that I have looked at probably hundreds of schools in California and elsewhere, and I have yet to find one with majority African American which is considered "high-performing" or "desirable" which is not a selective schools (private, charter, or magnet or admissions only public). As you stated, the reason for our poor ratings on many scales is due to the African American community. For the statistics in which this is true (it's not true for all): my contention is that this is a reflection not of their personal failings but of the racism in our society which affects them in a million ways starting before they're even born (ie the maternal health and infant mortality statistics). We have a deeply unequal system with deeply racially and economically segregated schools and every study shows charters are worsening segregation in schools, including their disproportionate suspensions and expulsions of students of color which is even worse than it is in the public system. https://www.civilrightsproject.ucla...d-diversity/choice-without-equity-2009-report

    In my opinion private schools (including charters) should be illegal because they lead to a 2 tiered system by design, and also lead to segregated schools. Now there's a third tier: charters. They aim to represent a middle tier between private and public and it's unfair to the majority of our students. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/meh...t-is-right-ban-private-schools_b_1857287.html

    (and let me say I am enjoying the debate, because the discussion of these issues is crucial, and congrats/thanks to AlwaysAttend for attending to these issues in a cordial and respectful way which allows us to accept each other's differing opinions)
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
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  14. anon55

    anon55 Comrade

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    Sep 4, 2017

    Agree. Not race as a biological construct is causing poverty, but race is highly correlated to poverty.
     
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