Education is a Right that is easily compromised by teacher pay

Discussion in 'General Education' started by AlwaysAttend, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    309

    Sep 3, 2017

    So poor people are only entitled to attend underperforming schools?

    What if the elderly felt it was wrong for their taxes to support schools since they don't send children to them?
     
  2. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    309

    Sep 3, 2017

    Massachusetts has a better education system than NJ. Do you think the education department run by career educators would allow them to flagrantly break rules? Maybe they are getting bribed...
     
  3. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    309

    Sep 3, 2017

    All charter schools everywhere are public schools.
     
    Backroads likes this.
  4. mathmagic

    mathmagic Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,894
    Likes Received:
    736

    Sep 3, 2017

    A follow up on my previous post...

    Though the selection is random, the question then becomes about what part of the population is actively seeking those "different" opportunities? In this case, the quality is likely almost the exact same (just different style of learning, perhaps), but in the case of charter schools: even if it was a 100% random selection, would those in a lower socioeconomic status, or those with greater IEPs apply at the same rate as others, or would a lack of thinking about it / access, lead them not to?
     
  5. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    309

    Sep 3, 2017

    In bad school communites, charter schools are not a secret.

    Why don't we enter everyone in the district in the lottery and you need to request to be opted out. Would you be in favor of that?
     
  6. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    309

    Sep 3, 2017

    Just to be clear. I spent 3 months basically volunteering in a charter school. I have no connection beyond that and wanting every child to have access to a great education. What they do with it is on them.
     
  7. Backroads

    Backroads Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    2,181
    Likes Received:
    900

    Sep 3, 2017

    In my area, minorities, low SES, and IEPs/504s actually apply in greater numbers. We have a population of rich kids and middle-lass, but we're a Title 1 school.

    As I looked into the matter, I learned this isn't uncommon at charter schools. In fact, in many areas charter schools are seen as having a majority-is-minority diversity problem. My unresearched guess is those needing particular help may hope the charter school would be different enough to work for them. (We're running programs, for example, that really do reach into poverty solutions to work with our population and we are looking into getting a behavior unit program to better reach those with severe emotional problems).
     
    mathmagic likes this.
  8. Backroads

    Backroads Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    2,181
    Likes Received:
    900

    Sep 3, 2017

    And hence it's ridiculous to deny them public monies.

    I personally have seen little general difference between charter schools and public schools other than a few different focuses, but perhaps that means something is going right.
     
    AlwaysAttend likes this.
  9. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Companion

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    74

    Sep 3, 2017

    AlwaysAttend, In trying to understand your relationship to charters, why did you choose to get your admin experience at a charter as opposed to within the public system?
     
  10. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Companion

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    74

    Sep 3, 2017

    Backroads, Isn't one major difference that teachers in charters are paid/treated differently? When considering the topic of this thread, do charters positively impact the working conditions/ pay of the teaching profession?
     
  11. Backroads

    Backroads Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    2,181
    Likes Received:
    900

    Sep 3, 2017

    I personally see no difference. We are required to follow state licensing and teaching standards and our pay is competitive with the local district. If anything, I am treated better.
     
  12. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Companion

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    74

    Sep 3, 2017

    I understand that you are expected to follow the same standards.

    I'm more interested in working conditions. What I've read here and in other places about charters suggests that as a whole teachers in charters are more likely to be non-unionized and are more likely to be required to work more hours (which means if they are being paid the same as their public school colleagues per year that they are being paid less per hour) and/or are paid less.

    To me those things are not good for education. Education is better when teachers are treated well. To me that includes the right to unionize and good pay for reasonable hours.

    Do you feel that my impression of charters is inaccurate?
     
  13. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    309

    Sep 3, 2017

    Because as part of my admin grad program we were responsible for securing our placement. It was a summer internship and I was leaving one school and going to another for a better gig but obviously I couldn't intern at the old one and didn't feel comfortable asking at the new one. I decided a Charter would be easier to get a placement at because I wouldn't need to be BOE approved in the same manner (forms in by certain date plus summer BOE meetings often get canceled).

    I emailed every Charter School in 3 large urban districts and set up a meeting with the first school that responded. I got a great vibe when I went in and it was a truly rewarding internship with mentors who still guide me whenever I ask for advice. I couldn't have gotten a better placement in any other school (public, private, or charter). Maybe this will help explain my interest and passion some. Probably not enough for some but it's the reason lol.
     
  14. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    309

    Sep 3, 2017

    Depends on the school. Many offer bonuses.
     
  15. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    309

    Sep 3, 2017

    Charters can have unions. It's always up to the staff themselves to Unionize. As you've seen on these boards, many public school teachers aren't unionized.
     
    Backroads likes this.
  16. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Companion

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    60

    Sep 3, 2017

    But I'm not sure these bonuses actually positively impact teachers. I'm sure the bonuses are linked to test scores, and without getting into the test score debate, I don't know that an emphasis on test scores is good for teachers or students.
     
  17. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    309

    Sep 3, 2017

    If you think back to the point of the posting it was pay in relation to getting qualified candidates for positions. The charter where I interned and Newark Public Schools were both starting at just over $50,000. Both have an abundance of candidates for every job. Regardless of extra responsibilities and hours. In other places in the country, the starting pay doesn't come close.

    If you examine admin salaries in small districts and large districts you will often note that the small district admins need to do a lot more work than the larger districts admin. Is that good for admin, teachers, and students? Should we raise their pay higher than that of larger district admin staff? Where should that money come from? I suppose we could cut the art teacher or maybe school sports. I think that would have a negative impact on teachers and students though.
     
  18. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Companion

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    60

    Sep 3, 2017

    I don't really follow how this relates to my comment at all. Also, how do you figure admins in small district have more work to do? It may be true in some respects, but it seems counterintuitive.
     
  19. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    4,383
    Likes Received:
    127

    Sep 3, 2017

    You mentioned that salaries, unions, and charter & private schools were all part of the education puzzle. Then added that it should not only be rich students who get school choice. I was pointing out that charters are not an option here. I assumed you didn't know, although you seem to want us to think you know everything. :rolleyes: My mistake.
     
    svassillion likes this.
  20. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    309

    Sep 3, 2017

    You are saying that by asking charter school employees to do more for the same money it does nothing to improve the pay.

    The purpose of the post wasn't to raise pay in one district compared to another. More in whole states.

    With my state, there are many one school school districts where there might be one or two admin covering everything. There are also a lot of 2 building districts with 3 admin. For one building you could probably assume 75 observations which require writeups, all of the reports needed for the state, hib coordination, participation in county and state meetings, day to day operation of the school, etc.

    A principal in a larger district might only be responsible for his building and nothing else. Usually they also have 1 vp or more, supervisors etc.

    I'm equating the added workload of a small district admin vs. large district admin to the difference between charter teacher and public teacher. I thought it was abundantly clear, but if it wasn't, hopefully it is now.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. Peregrin5,
  2. TrademarkTer,
  3. MrK
Total: 586 (members: 8, guests: 486, robots: 92)
test