Discussion in 'General Education' started by Guitart, Feb 2, 2018.
Feb 6, 2018
Right, but my question is whether he is American.
Whoops, haha! I thought you asked if he is an American teacher. Lol.
Yes, that's what I am. I don't think personalia is important, which is why I don't want to go into more detail. Yes, I do teach in Japan, which I'm already regretting admitting to.
I offer my opinions and arguments, and that should be enough.
Let's just say that I know Americans enough to know that they're more than happy to delve into irrelevancies once logic is no longer a friend to their argument.
Feb 7, 2018
You're not obligated to divulge any information, obviously. My question isn't irrelevant, though. Race issues in America are unique, and our backgrounds impact our perceptions of those issues.
I’m curious, what do you mean by unique race issues?
Race, racial identity, race relations, social definitions and implications of race, and the politics of race in America are different from those things elsewhere. Race is tied to America's history and its present in a way that doesn't seem to exist elsewhere.
For me personally, I value the opinions of Americans on race as an American issue more than the opinions of non-Americans whose experiences are not American. To me, a non-American describing race issues in another country is irrelevant to discussions about race in America, because race as a thing in other countries is so different from race in America. By this I do not mean that other countries do not experience their own issues or challenges or problems related to race, or that non-Americans are not entitled to their own opinions about race. I just mean that people in those other countries do not, cannot, experience race in the same way as it exists in America.
You’ve made some very valid points. However, just because someone does not work with American students or is not an American, it doesn’t necessarily negate what they said or mean that they can’t give relevant thought-based opinions and perspectives on race issues in American schools. For example, educational policy makers here in the United States oftentimes look at successful systems used in other countries for inspiration. The same can be said for many other aspects for public schools.
To me it's an issue of disclosure and credibility. In order to assess a source's credibility, the source should be vetted.
The thing is, the US has an arguably unique level of diversity not often seen elsewhere in the world. Race issues come with the territory. More homogenous countries don't really deal with it at the same extent.
This is fair. Someone who doesn’t work in American schools may not have to deal with the exact same issues and so their contributions to the discussion may not always be applicable, but @Belch does offer sensible advice, at least in my opinion.
Belch also likes to stir the pot. I'm guilty of that myself sometimes too though.
My school has an announcement every morning for BHM with a famous black person and a description of their contribution. In Civics, they're doing a project about a famous black person and I think the students are choosing unique people which is nice!
You're looking to attack the source's credibility, which is an obvious ad hominem fallacy.
I am not offering any first hand accounts as premises to my argument, so you are only given logic to deal with.
Take it or leave it.
I live in Japan, but I have no idea what goes on in Japan, let alone my own neighborhood. I know the name of the river that runs through my village, but does that give me any credibility when it comes to talking about what goes on in my neighborhood? No! Honestly, I really have no clue what goes on in my neighborhood.
However, you think that your residence in the USA gives you some credibility when it comes to what goes on in the rest of your country? Does being a teacher give you some credibility when it comes to what goes on in my classroom?
I don't think so.
I’m not looking to attack anyone or anything. You seem a little defensive.
You just said that you are looking to "assess a source's credibility".
Think of me as one of your students, if that helps any. How would you respond to a student who responded as I did? No credibility. Just a student who doesn't know dog poo from shinola.
Would you ask your student "do you know anything about the American black experience?" Ahh... okay, you're Bob from a white family in a white suburb! You know nothing about being black in America!
Those students who stir the pot are, by far, my favorite students. Getting them to push back is the goal because that means they are thinking, rather than just taking notes.
Feb 8, 2018
Huh: so you, a teacher, insist that your dicta be judged by standards no stringent than those that apply to the pronouncements of, say, a sixteen-year-old? Fascinating.
I am with Belch on this one. Some posters on here — not all — tend to respond to posts that conflict with their style of thinking or worldview by being overtly dismissive and not even providing a legitimate rebuttal. (BTW, I’m NOT targeting any one poster.) For example, “I’m not even going to go there,” or “Whatever” or some other sophomoric response. I, myself, offer valid rebuttals to other posters even when they say something that is completely outlandish, nonsensical, or that I completely disagree with.
Also, we need more objectivity and less subjectivitity, IMO, though being subjective is necessary at times. To clarify, we need more evidence and logical reasoning and less “because my feelings.” Reality is independent of people’s feelings.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’m confused why teachers, who are disseminaters of facts and truth, would use other tools to present their case. If a teacher would not accept that kind of response from one of their students, then the teacher should not respond in that way, either. It sets a bad precedent, wouldn’t you say?
From a poem a student wrote for my class, today incidentally:
"and the person goes home
their tears falling softly on their pillow...
waits for their story to be told
and waits to see someone like them."
Separate names with a comma.