Are all freshmen boys this immature?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by RussianBlueMommy, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    Dec 6, 2017

    I often joke that my freshman boys are a different species than my other students. Obviously, I understand that they are human. And I treat them as such. But the constant farting, burping, touching each other, and jokes about butts and boobs get to be tiring after awhile. It's certainly not all of my freshman boys, but it's not anyone who isn't a freshman boy. Magically, they stop before sophomore year.
     
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  2. vickilyn

    vickilyn Virtuoso

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    As a science teacher mother of a boy, my rules for all students in my biology classes are explicit, and I spell them out on day one. If you are going to make a comment of a sexual nature, you better make sure you use scientific terminology properly. Knowing that many freshman and middle school students of any gender squirm when talking about reproduction, I always answer questions honestly and correctly. The terminology has to be scientifically appropriate, and I expect the students to know enough from the books and discussions to follow these rules. I long ago got over being self conscious with the subject matter, and I have the "look" that simply means business. The up side of this is that we can have meaningful conversations about everything scientific. But this may be the best advice: I tell them that my door is always open if they want to ask a legitimate question in a smaller arena. I raised my son to be able to ask anything and get an honest answer. I guess the attitude has stayed with me.

    By the way, I have met adults who are just as squirmy and inappropriate with any sexual conversation.
     
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  3. Belch

    Belch Rookie

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    Dec 6, 2017

    Maturity requires taking responsibility for one's behavior as it pertains to maintaining a civil society. Somebody who loudly exclaims "Boobies!" when a well endowed woman enters a room is probably not exactly going to be welcome in polite society, but that's irrelevant to whether he is doing his part to maintain that civil society.

    As for sexual jokes in a primary school, I'm certainly not advocating for that. I am simply saying that it does happen, and there are perfectly natural reasons for that type of behavior.

    I understand what you're saying about maturity, but I think it's part of learning how to behave in society. Boys will be boys, and we don't mature as fast as girls (is this sexist to say?).

    That said, I can appreciate how difficult it can be to have Beavis and Butthead sitting in the back of the classroom. I've taught them many times over the years, and it can get irritating.
     
  4. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Yes, and beliefs like 'boys will be boys' perpetuate rape culture.
     
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  5. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    I agree that we need to do away with the “boys will be boys” narrative. However, we don’t live in a rape culture. Think to my analogy about the millions of Spanish people who live in this country and this not being a Spanish culture because of that.

    Here are some numbers from the FBI: Rape accounted for 7.7% of all violent crime committed in the US in 2016. Car-theft accounted for 9.7% of all property crime committed in 2016. According to you, we live in a car-theft culture, right?
     
  6. Belch

    Belch Rookie

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    wut?

    Okay, you might want to expand on this a mite because I don't understand what you mean by rape culture, or how that applies to the topic.

    I'm pretty sure that rape is considered illegal in your country, as it is in mine, so what are you on about?
     
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  7. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Dec 7, 2017

    "We don't live in a rape culture"????? Are you serious? Do you have any idea how many people are sexually assaulted every day? "Rape culture" doesn't refer only to completed rapes. It also includes sexual harassment, intimidation, assault, violence, etc.

    You're in some dangerous territory here.
     
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  8. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Perhaps your ignorance about this topic stems from the fact that you live outside the US. This might help:
    http://bfy.tw/FRes
     
  9. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    Seems like rape is down by more than half since 1963:

    https://www.rainn.org/statistics/scope-problem

    Please acknowledge the point I made using crime statistics from the FBI. There are more property thefts than rape and sexual assaults combined. Do we live in a property-theft culture? Yes or no?

    https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/latest-crime-statistics-released

    “Today, the FBI released its annual compilation of crimes reported to its Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program by law enforcement agencies from around the nation. Crime in the United States, 2015 reveals a 3.9 percent increase in the estimated number of violent crimes and a 2.6 percent decrease in the estimated number of property crimes last year when compared to 2014 data.

    According to the report, there were an estimated 1,197,704 violent crimes committed around the nation. While that was an increase from 2014 figures, the 2015 violent crime total was 0.7 percent lower than the 2011 level and 16.5 percent below the 2006 level.

    Among some of the other statistics contained in Crime in the United States, 2015:

    • The estimated number of murders in the nation was 15,696.
    • During the year, there were an estimated 90,185 rapes. (This figure currently reflects UCR’s legacy definition. Learn more about the revised rape definition.)
    • There were an estimated 327,374 robberies nationwide, which accounted for an estimated $390 million in losses (average dollar value of stolen property per reported robbery was $1,190).
    • Firearms were used in 71.5 percent of the nation’s murders, 40.8 percent of robberies, and 24.2 percent of aggravated assaults.
    • Property crimes resulted in losses estimated at $14.3 billion. The total value of reported stolen property (i.e., currency, jewelry, motor vehicles, electronics, firearms) was $12,420,364,454.”
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  10. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Everything is fine then, I'm sure.

    I'll just leave this right here.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Backroads

    Backroads Enthusiast

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    Dec 7, 2017

    Great strategy, and one I hear from many parents.

    Oh my, my mother and sexual conversation. Now, my mother is a woman of healthy sexuality as far as I'm aware and care to know, but she does come from a time of different standards. She is horrified by how we use the appropriate terms.
     
  12. vickilyn

    vickilyn Virtuoso

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    I am more scared of inappropriate terms - at that point, how do we know if we are still all talking about the same thing??? I love standard language and reliable descriptors.
     
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  13. ms.irene

    ms.irene Groupie

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    Dec 7, 2017

    It is true, based on brain imaging research, that male brains tend to develop the pre-frontal cortex (area responsible for decision-making) later than female brains. That does not mean that we should make excuses for the behavior, even knowing the developmental stage. We still have to appropriately correct the behavior, every time. If we don't, we perpetuate the stereotypes and the excuses that permeate our culture and that, yes, are used to excuse rape, assault, harassment, etc.
     
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  14. Backroads

    Backroads Enthusiast

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    Dec 7, 2017

    I've never liked the whole fuss about "their brains aren't developed!" It's like some people think there is a magic switch in the brain that goes from immaturity to maturity. No, the brain isn't fully developed, but it does not mean adolescents are incapable of learning and mastering behavior and good decision-making.

    On the rape culture and sexual harrassment, we are actively teaching, admittedly unconciously, with our insistence "brains aren't developefed!" that males are doomed to become problems of society rather than, excuse the sexism, "gentlemen". Which I believe the vast majority of males can be.
     
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  15. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    Oh wait, I think I know what you mean by “rape culture.” Do you mean when people make excuses for men who commit sexual assault and rape? If so, then I would agree with you! I have seen this happen time and time again.
     
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  16. 3Sons

    3Sons Connoisseur

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    Dec 7, 2017

    Obedience often is conflated with maturity.
     
  17. ms.irene

    ms.irene Groupie

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    Exactly. Just because we know the cause of the behavior, we shouldn't make excuses for it, or it will never go away.
    ...As is apparently the case for many, many adults, particularly in positions of power...
     
  18. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    Not obedience, but respecting authority figures and following the chain of command. A mature person can still crack jokes and have fun. I do it with my students all the time and am known as the “fun teacher,” but there is a time and place. Sexual jokes are best kept private amongst friends — I don’t say any with my friends though — or during a comedy routine. They are NOT appropriate in the work place or around children.
     
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  19. Belch

    Belch Rookie

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    Dec 7, 2017

    I don't think it's about making excuses, but rather understanding that there are differences, how those differences manifest themselves, and why. Once we can empathize with the reasons people do what they do, then we have a better understanding of how to deal with antisocial behavior.

    What exactly is the correct way to deal with young men who make sexual jokes? From what I can tell from reading the many responses in this thread, I'm guessing that we all have our different ways to deal with this. One teacher might reprimand the student by saying "Richard, we don't use that word in my classroom! Next time, use the word "mammary glands.". Another teacher might call the cops and have him locked up on a rape charge.

    Personally, I would talk to him after class and explain that there are better ways of getting the attention of a young lady. If that didn't work, I'd have a friendly chat with the parents. If that didn't work, I'd talk to the principal and have him deal with it.

    The reason I would do my utmost to keep from making it an issue is because young men can be stupid, but it's generally not intentional, and the last thing I want to do is create a situation that might embarrass him in front of his peers. He'll get enough of that from the young ladies he is clumsily trying to impress.
     
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  20. ms.irene

    ms.irene Groupie

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    Agreed. I would take the same approach, perhaps minus the "getting attention from a young lady part" (depending on the student).
     

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