American Sniper

Discussion in 'Teacher Time Out' started by scmom, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. scmom

    scmom Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jan 21, 2015

    I knew this would stir up controversy but I strongly feel it is an important enough story to be worth discussion.

    Chris is a hero to me, and to the thousands of soldiers he saved and their families. Taya is a hero to me for surviving everything she and her family have gone through as gracefully as possible. It is okay if he isn't a hero for you. He wasn't a perfect person. None of us are.

    Did he do terrible things? Absolutely - as do most soldiers in combat if they are following orders! It was war. He did more than most because he was better at protecting others than most.

    Did he think and say terrible things? Probably. Wouldn't most of us faced with the constant stress he was under? To do what he did and stay sane you would have to believe the enemy were just that - the enemy.

    Whether you believe it or not, Chris was focused on saving people, and he did what he did to save as many as he could.

    Imo the movie isn't about glorifying a hero, it is about how a real man and his wife deal with the ugly realities of war. We hear about war on the news, we read about it, but it is facts and figures and stuff we get tired of. A story like this, I hope, slaps us in the face and makes us pay attention because it is a raw story about real people facing real ethical dilemmas and we can feel outrage or empathy or whatever for them.

    The point is that we should feel for them, and do something. Anything. Support a local family. Donate to a charity. Protest. Support. Volunteer. Remember the stats we see are real people - not robots in a war machine. They feel. They hurt. They need support whether you support the war or not. This is above politics.
     
  2. physteach

    physteach Companion

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    24

    Jan 21, 2015

    Does anyone else see the contradiction here? I'm not one to compare this guy to a Nazi, but this is literally the excuse that Nazi's gave for committing all of the atrocities they did.
     
  3. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,913
    Likes Received:
    136

    Jan 21, 2015

    In before the lock.
    This was our first "pre-emptive" war. We claimed stuff in the Gulf of Tonkin in Viet Nam but we claimed WOMD and then couldnt find any. Let's be honest, all soldiers are not heroes. All teachers are not paragons of virtue always imparting knowledge to their students. No one is perfect. When I hear my freedoms are being protected in Afgahnistan I have to think about it. I have HUGE respect for military personnel. Their lives are dictated by people moving them like pawns with sometimes not so much regard for the safety. They literally risk their lives in far away place (that we probably do not belong in). In fact the only charity I give to (and have for many years is) the DAV. That said, dissent finally got us into WW2 and out of Viet Nam. Both good ideas if you ask me. but like I said earlier
    IBTL
     
  4. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    17,362
    Likes Received:
    46

    Jan 21, 2015

    I have not seen the movie yet, but it is definitely on my list to see. Honestly, any man/woman who willingly puts themselves into a life/death situation for others is a hero to me. Are all heroes perfect people with no flaws? Of course not. Neither is Chris Kyle, but he did things that most of us wouldn't dream of.
     
  5. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,220
    Likes Received:
    427

    Jan 21, 2015

    Right. I wouldn't dream of doing them because I find them morally reprehensible, or questionable at best. I don't see that as a reason to celebrate his life.
     
  6. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    17,362
    Likes Received:
    46

    Jan 21, 2015

    He was following orders. He might not have agreed with those orders, but it was his duty to do so. And I'm not just talking about what he did during war either. It takes a special person to work with soldiers with PTSD. He did it, even knowing the risks.
     
  7. Jerseygirlteach

    Jerseygirlteach Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jan 21, 2015


    I have not seen the movie and take NO position on the man or the film.


    Just taking orders, though, is not a good excuse. It's the same excuse the Nazis gave when they defended genocide.
     
  8. John Lee

    John Lee Groupie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    43

    Jan 21, 2015

    Why should this thread be locked? No personal attacks (yet :p), and it is a relevant and pretty important topic.

    The differing opinions here, seem much more in-line with what I would expect. Pretty cool!
     
  9. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,928
    Likes Received:
    2,063

    Jan 21, 2015

    :wow:
     
  10. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,775
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jan 21, 2015

    This is an interesting thread. I'm curious about the movie, but haven't decided if I will see it. I've recently met a soldier who is suffering from PTSD and have heard first hand what it is like for him and his family. He is such a kind man and my heart breaks for him.
     
  11. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Jan 21, 2015

    Well, I saw it.

    Stunned. Silence. That's all I can say.

    It's going to take me a while to process the movie, the story, everything.

    I do have a question...was the movie made (or planned to be made) before he was killed? If so, I wonder how it would have ended (no spoilers-it's been news since 2013).
     
  12. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,775
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jan 21, 2015

    Stunned. Silence. This is accurate when hearing the horrors first hand.
     
  13. Bella2010

    Bella2010 Habitué

    Joined:
    May 1, 2010
    Messages:
    807
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jan 21, 2015

    I haven't seen the movie yet. I do think of him as a hero, as I do every man and woman who has chosen to serve our country. I respect people who don't feel this way. However, the simple truth is that we enjoy the liberties and freedoms we have thanks to our service men and women. This fact doesn't change depending on a person's stance on the situation. :2cents:
     
  14. scmom

    scmom Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jan 21, 2015

    I totally agree. It has been a week for me and I am still processing it.

    Yes, the book was on the best seller list and Bradley Cooper had bought the movie rights a little while before Chris was killed. He only got to speak to Chris once. Good question about the ending. Who knows....movie land often makes stuff up, but he had promised Chris that he would honor his family.
     
  15. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,913
    Likes Received:
    136

    Jan 22, 2015

    Unbroken is the book to read about a soldier who overcame things no mortal human could imagine. It is still on the NYT BSL. Have not seen the movie.
     
  16. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Jan 22, 2015

    Here's a pretty comprehensive comparison of the movie and real life.

    DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK if you do not want to read spoilers. You can scroll down and read about Kyle's real life, compared to claims he made, without many movie spoilers.

    http://www.historyvshollywood.com/reelfaces/american-sniper/
     
  17. Major

    Major Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,620
    Likes Received:
    5

    Jan 22, 2015

    I like and admire Chris Kyle .... and would want someone as a neighbor just like him... In my opinion Mr. Kyle is a man's man. Certainly not perfect, but someone you could depend on ... day in.... day out. He is a brave man ...... an American Hero ... who, in part, served his country as a sniper......... Too bad he's gone.......
     
  18. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    17,362
    Likes Received:
    46

    Jan 23, 2015

    No, but if soldiers refuse to carry out a direct order from the higher ups, then they get written up or worse. Many I'm sure do not agree with their orders 100% of the time, but do them anyway to avoid punishment.
     
  19. MikeTeachesMath

    MikeTeachesMath Devotee

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,163
    Likes Received:
    3

    Jan 24, 2015

    [​IMG]
     
  20. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,479
    Likes Received:
    1,012

    Jan 24, 2015

    To be precise, the Uniform Code of Military Justice is at pains to point out that what the member of the armed forces is required to obey is a lawful order (10 US Code §892 Art. 1-3). If an order does not comply with the UCMJ or with the law, the military member has a duty not to obey, and the member can be subject to punishment for obeying an order that the member knew was illegitimate or immoral. physteach's comment above shouldn't have raised eyebrows: this was indeed the crux of the legal case against Nazi military members at Nuremberg.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. gr3teacher,
  2. TheGr8Catsby
Total: 471 (members: 2, guests: 431, robots: 38)
test