Advice about Observation

Discussion in 'Elementary Education' started by snowflake24, Apr 12, 2018.

  1. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Apr 19, 2018

    I can’t find the exact one I referenced initially, but several others with very similar results. It’s the future and I can’t wait to get a robot companion one day. Sign me up, haha!

    Enjoy! :)

    http://www.newsweek.com/ai-artificial-intelligence-robots-emotions-humans-541595

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...rward-with-emotional-chatting-machine-chatbot

    http://www.glitch.news/2016-02-10-ai-robots-can-now-read-human-emotions.html

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.re...g_human_emotions_from_daily-life_gestures/amp

    https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7989198/?reload=true

    https://techcrunch.com/shows/judah-vs-the-machines/
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  2. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Apr 19, 2018

    Thanks for the articles, but I was hoping for that research that was showing the 100% in some aspects of emotion recognition.
     
  3. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Some of the articles I posted said 83% to 90% correct. Also, I said nearly 100%, which is what I remember when I read the article.
     
  4. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Thanks for what you provided. I was really hoping for the actual research papers to see what their trials entailed since most "news" articles are weak on fact because they are often written to fit an agenda or a story.
     
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  5. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    Apr 19, 2018

    (I have not read all the posts here yet, so sorry if this has been brought up already)

    Depending on my individual students, engagement can look different. For example, some of my students like to draw/doodle as they write notes but I know they're listening. Actually, those same kids sometimes listen and behave better because they're drawing (and have something to do with their hands). Someone passing by might see a student drawing in class and immediately assume they're disengaged.

    For certain kids who look "disengaged", I know I could teach a lesson, have them look like they're totally ignoring me, and then call on them with a question and have them answer without skipping a beat. This isn't because they already knew it (it's not that the lesson was too easy), but rather that they've been actually paying attention and thinking while sitting there sketching or otherwise not looking directly at the teacher.

    There are all kinds of engagement. Obviously I'm referring to a traditional lecture type lesson rather than something like group work or a project (which sometimes the quiet listeners hate).
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  6. TeacherWhoRuns

    TeacherWhoRuns Companion

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    Apr 19, 2018

    To my principal, it does. At least, when it comes to me personally, there must be 100% engagement 100% of the time. Our scores are below expectations, approaching expectations and meeting expectations. I got approaching expectations because I had one super shy student who was not participating in a call/response lesson. Since he was afraid of his own shadow and she was right behind him, I wasn't surprised he sat with his fist in his mouth the whole time, even when I encouraged him to join in. In my next obs with this same P, she gave me the same mark because a child on the spectrum got distracted 20 minutes into the lesson. He still knew exactly what was going on, as demonstrated by answering questions, but in her mind, his fidgeting was disengagement. Her observations are maddening because she looks for the things beyond our control and then downgrades us because of this.
     
  7. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    I really wish I could find the article. If I find it, then I will send it to you!
     
  8. Been There

    Been There Habitué

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    Apr 20, 2018

    This is especially true of students on the autistic spectrum who must often look away in order to avoid sensory overload. I discovered that many of my ASD students were actually learning more from my lessons than most of the other students who appeared to be engaged. I wonder how many admins and the teachers they're observing are aware of this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  9. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    Our observation rubric says the same thing. I agree that it's a good overarching goal, but I don't think it's completely realistic in every classroom.
     
  10. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    Just imagine the same expectation of adults in staff meetings. There's very high engagement if done well, but even us adults have those occasional moments of distraction!
     
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  11. greendream

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    Apr 20, 2018

    What the... I don't even...

    So you are unwilling to admit the possibility that terms with dictionary definitions can appear on a subjective rubric. You are aware that in every rubric that exists, virtually every single word can be found in the dictionary, which makes them all 100% objective by your standards.
     
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  12. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Apr 20, 2018

    Just let it go----proffy isn't going to let you have this!
     
  13. greendream

    greendream Cohort

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    It's just very interesting the logical pretzels people will create to avoid admitting that they're wrong.
     
  14. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    When I say strictly defined and objective, that is not to say I’m implying because it is defined that it is therefore objective. I’m saying teachers should be objectively evaluated based on rigid definitions and educational standards and that observational and empirical evidence should dictate if a teacher is determined to be effective, not hunches, feelings, or opinions.

    Hopefully, that is now made clear.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  15. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Like this logical fallacy. :rolleyes:
     
  16. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    I agree that the rubric itself may be subjective, as not everyone can agree on the definition of teacher effectiveness, but the standards and measures of success are objective. I mean, learning targets are calling objectives for a reason.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  17. greendream

    greendream Cohort

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    Okay, that's progress. Rubrics can be subjective--you are right. The examples that you started off the whole conversation with are perfect examples of a subjective rubric. You know, the ones that had things like "For example, is the class generally engaged?" That's a subjective rubric that you called objective.

    You had it... then you lost it.
     
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  18. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Would you agree that a class is either engaged or it isn’t? There’s no other option.

    Now, let’s say assistant principal A says teacher C’s class is engaged and lists several reasons why with evidence and interjects no opinions (i.e. those criteria I listed earlier). In other words, the principal concludes that, based on the evidence present, teacher C is deemed to be effective in the classroom. Then, assistant principal B observes teacher C and says he/she is ineffective because the one student with a fidgeting problem fidgeted throughout the lesson, but still participated and did their work correctly.

    Explain to me how that student’s fidgeting has ANYTHING, anything at all, to do with engagement and the definition of student engagement. Also, you tell me which situation is subjective and objective. I’m all ears.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  19. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    It seems as though the subjectivity issue is more due to a spectrum of levels of engagement. I'm guessing we could all agree that if a kid gets momentarily distracted by something (i.e. the door opens and then closes because someone walked in) could still be considered engaged -- heck, we have that happen to us at staff meetings all the time - you get distracted for a few seconds by something but then attend back to the task/presentation. At what point does that inattentiveness to the task/instruction consider them to "not be engaged"?

    This is why IEPs and goals in other similar settings are usually written with specific numerical goals: to remain objective. Instead of saying: "Bobby will use correct conventions in his writing.", the goal might be "Bobby will accurately use punctuation and capitalization 80% of the time as measured in a 5-sentence paragraph." (disclaimer: I don't teach SPED, so that's probably not as well-written as it could be :)) This is objective and can be clearly measured.
     
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  20. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Apr 20, 2018

    This post couldn’t be more perfect!
     

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