Advice about Observation

Discussion in 'Elementary Education' started by snowflake24, Apr 12, 2018.

  1. greendream

    greendream Cohort

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    Apr 19, 2018

    What you're not getting is that just because terms on a rubric can be traced back to a dictionary definition (which is not comprehensive by the way), that doesn't mean the rubric itself is an objective tool. Rubrics can be objective, but the examples you gave previously were plainly subjective.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
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  2. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    How did you come to this conclusion? Is it objectively measurable? Is it your opinion? Could someone else come to a different but reasonable conclusion using the same data?
     
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  3. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Using a dictionary definition doesn't make something objective when the definition explains a subjective situation or uses subjective measures.
     
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  4. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    But they dont HAVE to
     
  5. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    You are right.

    This is like so many other situations where people are put in situations where they don't have good choices. The admin's boss tells them they must even though the truth is it is just how they want it. Actions have consequences. The consequence of a boss making an edict means those being impacted have to make a choice. Follow the instruction or take whatever harm may come from making the decision to not follow.
     
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  6. futuremathsprof

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    If you type different facial expressions into your internet search engine, what expressions do you see and what emotion are those expressions associated with?

    Why is that? I think you know the answer, but humor me, please.
     
  7. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Apr 19, 2018

    If someone was convinced they could talk to toasters, does that make them correct because they believe differently than I do? No. They are still wrong.

    The difference is that I use evidence to make my conclusions. If I don’t have any evidence, then I say my results are inconclusive. There is zero evidence that indicates the child is feeling anything other emotion other than what I wrote in my previous post, so if someone said otherwise then they would be dishonest because they have no evidence to make that determination.
     
  8. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Apr 19, 2018

    This is your opinion, which is subjective.
     
  9. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    And you still haven’t answered my question on how the robots could guess people’s emotions correctly when all of their thought processes are objective.
     
  10. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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  11. TrademarkTer

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    Apr 19, 2018

    We have rubrics too, but I think the rubrics do leave room for interpretation.

    I think if the math supervisor comes to observe my lesson, she is going to focus on different parts of the rubric than if the assistant principal who used to teach social studies comes to observe me.

    One thing my district does to help with this is occasional "dual observations" where two different admins will observe the same lesson and compare scores afterwards. I've never experienced this, but some of my colleagues have.
     
  12. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Apr 19, 2018

    My opinion that she seems tired or expectant is no less reasonable than yours. We both have exactly the same data from which to draw.

    It seems like you are arguing that opinions and emotions and intuitions don’t exist because robots can be trained to make decisions based on the same data that shapes our opinions and feelings and intuition. Is that what you’re arguing?
     
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  13. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    There are parts of our evaluations that are always open to some interpretation. Even our contract language leaves some wiggle room, like where it says that admin can request a medical note when an employee is “excessively” absent or require a drug test when there is “reasonable suspicion”. It defines neither of those terms. It’s up to the admin’s judgment. Subjective.
     
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  14. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Actually, it is not an opinion. It is fact. It is logic also.
     
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  15. futuremathsprof

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    I agree. This is a situation where subjectivity should be used because it’s not explicitly defined, as you, yourself, stated.
     
  16. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    It’s like a brick wall.

    The subjectivity doesn’t come from the part where it is not defined. It comes from the part where admin defines it according to what is suitable for the school and situation. There IS a definition for “excessive”, but it is not given in the contract. Rather, it is left to the discretion, or opinion, of the administrator.
     
  17. futuremathsprof

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    This is not what I’m saying at all. Where did I say emotions and intuitions do not exist? This is your interpretation of what I’m saying.

    Seriously, look up “facial expressions” on google images and tell me what images appear. (That was a rhetorical expression.) Answer: You will see the emotion listed for each facial expression. Similar images were then presented to the robots, whose only frames of reference are logic and mathematics. The robot was then asked to use its knowledge of said images to deduce what emotions were shown to it. All it was allowed to do was analyze their facial features. It was nearly able to correctly determine the emotive states nearly 100% of the time. How is that intuition or emotion or subjective?

    Answer: It wasn’t.

    Definition of “objectivity”: not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

    The robot was doing exactly this because it has no emotions to speak of and it is not using its opinions in considering or representing facts. It’s just using its knowledge of facial features and deductive reasoning. That’s it.
     
  18. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    If the word “excessive” was clearly defined in the contract, then the admin would have zero discretion. Correct? Thus, it is because the word is not clearly defined in this context that he/she does have discretion.
     
  19. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Could you please link your source for this information. I am interested in reading the research.
     
  20. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    ...
     

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